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Jacko
01-02-07, 16:02
The Blue ball-carrier runs towards Gold's goal-line and is tackled there. The ball-carrier dives forward into in-goal, but the ball is dislodged from the player's grasp and falls straight down. The ball lands on the ground with the Blue player on top of it. The ball is under his head and no one can ground it. What do you do?

Wow - this exact scenario happened just last week and i got it spot on then as well....

Pablo
01-02-07, 17:02
Well, it's not a knock-on, because he dropped it straight down, and it's not a try becuase you can only score a try with the hands, arms or front of body from neck to waist. If nobody can ground it legally, then I imagine we treat it as the same as held up over the line and award a scrum at Gold 5m line with Blue throwing in.

Do I win?

QE2wgc
01-02-07, 17:02
course you do

If you didnt get that right - I would have told uncle Ed

ex-lucy
01-02-07, 17:02
i would have awarded a scrum to gold for knock on .... a pragmatic decision

Jacko
01-02-07, 17:02
Whereas I would have eaten my hat if a scenario like that ever occurred in the real world.

Deeps
02-02-07, 02:02
i would have awarded a scrum to gold for knock on .... a pragmatic decision

This is the Blind Fire Safety Control Officer - I agree.

QE2wgc
02-02-07, 09:02
Most times yes I would agree an knock forward, however it was clearly stated that the ball went straight down.

mkottke
06-02-07, 23:02
Most times yes I would agree an knock forward, however it was clearly stated that the ball went straight down.

I probably have called knock forward, unless there are 5 different camera angles. But as stated in the scenerio, the ball went straight down.
In all reality, the blue player should be smacked around by his entire team for dropping the ball in the try zone. But that is an issue for the after match social.

Another question should arise as to the field position of the ref to actually determine if the ball went straight down. With blue going forward towards the try, the ref was probably already situated inside the try zone at a decent angle to the tackle. From this point, can the ref actually determine if the ball went straight down or not?

ONON-
Mark

OB..
07-02-07, 01:02
For all the strengths of LRL, this illustrates one of its weaknesses: the question are designed round one particular piece of law rather than a scenario. In this case the point is that you can ground the ball with your torso, but not your head.

The scenario is highly artificial, to the point of being unrealistic. We are asked to believe that the Blue attacker cannot put his hands on a ball under his head. It is hard to produce a decent one but here is one effort:

Gold defender tries to pick up a bouncing ball near his goal-line. He is tackled and loses the ball into in-goal. Another Blue attacker tries to dive on the ball but trips over some legs sticking out of the tackle and lands on his back, grounding the ball with his head. The ball immediately squirts away into touch-in-goal.

No try, because you cannot ground the ball with your head. 5m attacking scrum because the defender put the ball into in-goal.

QE2wgc
07-02-07, 09:02
OB
Nice, would pay good money to see that one...

The real point is you have to be in a good position early to make an infomed judgment call - because none of us have TMO's at our games, and only very rarely appointed TJ's

mkottke
07-02-07, 09:02
No try, because you cannot ground the ball with your head. 5m attacking scrum because the defender put the ball into in-goal.

No try and blue losses the ball to a drop out, double wammy to them.

-Mark

OB..
07-02-07, 10:02
No try and blue losses the ball to a drop out, double wammy to them.
Why a drop out?

Law 22.11 (a) [...] If the ball was played into in-goal by the defending team, a 5-metre scrum shall be awarded and the attacking team throws in the ball.

collybs
07-02-07, 16:02
In the original question -Why can no one ground it? Surely the next player to come and apply downward pressure to the ball touches it down.
It is not "held up" as the ball is on the floor so why not play on until someone touches it down.

mkottke
07-02-07, 18:02
Why a drop out?

Law 22.11 (a) [...] If the ball was played into in-goal by the defending team, a 5-metre scrum shall be awarded and the attacking team throws in the ball.

You are correct about the awarded scrum.

My mistake, I had a similar situation last weekend. A player was going in for a try and was tackled near the try line. Play continued and the attacking team dropped the ball straight down, then kicked through touch-in-goal.

-mark

tim White
09-02-07, 10:02
TMO would have given the try to Johnny!