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didds
20-03-07, 15:03
Question Reference Number: 452
Blue has the ball and a maul forms. Blue #5, the ball-carrier, goes to ground and makes the ball immediately available. Blue drives forward, but the ball is held up and not playable. What do you do?
Incorrect - You answered D.
The correct answer is: C.
17.5 & 16 Definition & 16.7a : A maul ends successfully when the ball is on the ground, or is on or over the goal-line. A ruck is a phase of play where one or more players from each team, who are on their feet, in physical contact, close around the ball on the ground. A ruck ends unsuccessfully when the ball becomes unplayable and a scrum is ordered. The team that was moving forward immediately before the ball became unplayable in the ruck throws-in the ball. Once the ball-carrier releases the ball after going to ground in the maul, the maul becomes a ruck. Blue was moving forward when the ball became unplayable so they get the resulting scrum.

A. Nothing; play on.
B. Award a penalty kick to Gold (the opposing team).
C. Award a scrum, with Blue throwing-in.
D. Award a scrum, with Gold throwing-in.
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we've discussed this before - ISTR the argument went its an unsuccessful maul so scrum to the oppo (ie D)
????

didds

OB..
20-03-07, 15:03
I agree it should be D.

The law is quite specific:

17.6 (g) If the ball-carrier in a maul goes to ground, including being on one or both knees or sitting, the referee orders a scrum unless the ball is immediately available.

In other words, the maul is NOT transformed into a ruck.

SimonSmith
20-03-07, 16:03
The question is badly worded I think, and I can understand the logic.

The question says that Blue 5 goes to ground and makes the ball immediately available.
The ball becomes unavailable AFTER that.

The logic is:
As the ball is available when 5 goes down, the maul has successfully ended. It has therefore become a ruck, with blue taking it in.
The ball becomes unavalable in the ruck. Blue took it in, moving forward, therefore they get the put in.

Not sure I agree with the rationale, but that's the logic flow.

Davet
20-03-07, 17:03
We have had this before. A maul CAN become a ruck, so long as it is quick about it. There is certainly no prohibition in Law. It may be that the ball carrier goes to ground, making the ball available, but the ball (though available) is not used. It may be that a ruck forms and drives forward some distance, before the ball then becomes unavailable again.

So technically, no problems.

Back in the real world however...if the ball carrier goes to ground then i would play on if the ball was then used sharpish - if not then I would have to see the whole thing move over and beyond the ball carrier, with the ball clearly at the back and available, or else I would blow collapsed maul.

Not seen one work like that yet.

I am waiting, though. Some day.

OB..
20-03-07, 18:03
I think too many angels are dancing around trying to find a pin head.

If the ball carrier goes to ground, then it either becomes a successful or an unsuccessful end to a maul. Not a ruck.

You can turn a maul into a ruck by letting the ball go to ground (not forward).

These situations are fairly easy to distinguish. Let's not complicate the issue unnecessarily.