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View Full Version : Kick in general play after scrum - offside?



Will
10-05-05, 07:05
I ref'd a game last weekend....green scrum, they won the ball, the scrum half passes the ball to the fly half who puts a massive up-and-under and all the backline starts to chase...they are all onside...however.....the forwards have disengaged from the scrum and all 8 moved forward ahead of the kicker but stopped 10m from where the ball landed...and waited for the red fullback to get the ball and run 5m before they proceeded to tackle him....

I awarded a penalty to blue because the green forwards were part of the play and were never onside.....however after the game I started to think about this....must admit the general play offside rule bugs me a bit...any advise would be most welcome.

didds
10-05-05, 09:05
AIUI its the correct call... players in an offside position cannot MOVE towards the ball... in fact they can't even stand still and wait, they have to actively be seen to putting themselves on side.

didds

GazMaz
10-05-05, 09:05
Will as a Jnr member I assume (hopefully correctly) that your also new to reffing like myself.

No doubt, call was correct, being new one of the best pieces of advice I got was "did it look right?"

We refs like black and white, however that rarely happens especially at the lower levels.

Pablo
10-05-05, 10:05
Will, welcome to the forums.

It sounds like the right call to me because, as didds said, the Law requires off-side players to actively retire. They may not seek to make themselves onside by loitering and waiting for the action of a team-mate or opponent to do it for them. Sounds like these forwards were doing the latter, so good call IMHO.

Josharm
10-05-05, 10:05
What signal is used for offside in general play?

Deeps
10-05-05, 11:05
Josh,

I would use the swinging arm with shoulders parallel to the touchline to indicate the offside line at the scrum, ruck or maul as this is the signal understood by most people. If offside from a kick as above then the options signal by the referee for penalty kick or scrum back (one hand/arm as for penalty, the other straight out indicating the scrum position) are used. For offside under the 10 metre law or not 10 metres at a kick then two hands, open palms showing 10 fingers (if you have them) are held up towards the offenders. Less common is the offside at a lineout signal which is a horizontal swinging hand/arm across the chest in the direction of the offside.

Will
10-05-05, 11:05
thanks guys, yes, am new to the refereeing part of things, and must admit the offside laws take a little bit to get used to it, they do confuse me when 11.3 and 11.4 overlap....in the heat of the game it can be hard to tell which is which...any suggestions or checklists you guys use?

Your advice is much appreciated!

Waynepipmad
10-05-05, 11:05
The last assesment I had, the Chap watching me pulled me up for a similar incident.

O/Half kicks a ball up and winger chases who started about 5 metres in front of kick, opposing full back catches it, but has to run across field as the winger will tackle him if he moves forwards.

Assesor says that FB played the ball so I should not have called penalty. I argued that if he'd played it and ran FORWARD 5 metres, then I would have let it go, but as he run sideways, I felt this was no advantage. He did not agree.

Am I right or wrong?

OB..
10-05-05, 12:05
Of course the full back played the ball. He could not take the risk that you would let play go on.

Given that the winger was offside, the crucial question is whether or not he cut down the fullback's options. You can call advantage and see how play develops. Your adviser may have felt that the full back would have gone sideways anyway, or that he benefitted from it - that is detail for judgement.

Waynepipmad
10-05-05, 15:05
To me he ran in-field and into all the cover, whereas he would have had a 1-on-1 if the Winger had held his ground. I was happy with my decision, but he was a WRU Assesor so I did the `yes sir, no sir' bit!!

didds
10-05-05, 15:05
surely you were right on the basis that by continuing to run forwards from an offside position the winger was penalisable... the FB catching and running 5m couldn't have put him onside EVER.

Strikes me assessors cannot always get it right themselves? (genuine point, not a nit-pick!)

didds2

OB..
10-05-05, 15:05
didds - absolutely correct. That is why I value the discussion afterwards. Hopefully we can iron out any disagreements/misunderstandings, and at the worst know what we are agreeing to differ about.

tim White
01-07-05, 16:07
As with all assessments, take them on the chin at the time, take them all (godd or bad) with a pinch of salt because they are still only one persons opinion, BUT LOOK FOR PATTERNS.

Happy reffing.