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Simon Thomas
02-07-05, 14:07
I am away on business currently and watched the match in a South African rugby club in Jo'burg - at community level it was like being back home.

I was surprised to hear exactly the same comments about the elite and community game refereeing differences being made as we have discussed so many times on here.
It was a brutal match, with litte regard for post-tackle / ruck and scrummage laws - my new South African friends were as amazed as me at some of the Australian referee's decisions (or non-decisions) as I was.
And as for the two TJs - both senior IRB refs, a total lack of responsibilty - our ZP TJ's put them in the shade !

didds
02-07-05, 23:07
but scw has requested that the tjs not get involved...

didds

Simon Thomas
03-07-05, 12:07
Surely it is irrelevant what SCW requests ? There must be consistency. The IRB sets the Game's Laws, with due consultation and experimentation (e.g CURURS law lab), and the role of the referee and TJs. Local Unions such as RFU then apply those at all levels from elite to Community, as appropriate.

In my experience the team of 3 concept is an excellent way for a referee to leave to TJs after the ball incidents , blind side offsides and side-entry to tackle / ruck / mauls, front of line-out offences if the ref is at the back, etc.......

At levels 7 to 9, I can referee and manage my matches through preventative measures with two Society colleagues running as fully appointed TJs, so I can concentrate on the play and not worry about peripheral issues. 'Knowledgeable players' lwill always be aware of when the ref isn't looking and perhaps use it to their benefit.

At the speed and professionalism of national Elite, let alone internationals, there is no way a referee can cover all that is happening and eventualities.

So what next - SCW requests that referees themselves don't get involved at certain phases or elements of play ?

Mat 04
03-07-05, 17:07
I think we can all say with absolutley no doubt that the match officials were a damn DISGRACE

There is no uncertainty in my mind that they were either biased or completely incompetent.

OB..
03-07-05, 17:07
Simon -
Surely it is irrelevant what SCW requests ?

To some extent yes. I didn't think what he said was very clear, but maybe he felt TJs were calling penalties when he felt the referee had originally decided to play on.

While it is correct that match officials are answerable to the IRB, not the coaches, it is also true that at a conference in 2000 (I think) the top coaches made it clear that unless they got most of the law changes they were after, they would not be prepared to co-operate in future. In that sense, Woodward does (did) have a big say in future developments.


So what next - SCW requests that referees themselves don't get involved at certain phases or elements of play?

That is already the case. Look at rucking players: the law says NO, and the IRB has recently re-affirmed that. Then Chris Jack gets heavily rucked in the Lions game without penalty. AIUI from our ZP refs, that is because it is what they are expected to allow by assessors and coaches.

Cynical? Me?!