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didds
16-09-07, 17:09
Pre-match chats.

REF : "Hi - my name is Fred. But when the game starts you call me sir".

Thoughts?

Level 7 game.

didds

dave_clark
16-09-07, 17:09
sounds fair to me.

Gareth-Lee Smith
16-09-07, 17:09
Another interesting one. Sounds fair, if a little too officious for my liking. Could get the coach on the wrong side - most referees get this respect instantaneously. For a level 7 ref to say that, I'd expect that they'd either a) received 'Oi, mate' in their last game or b) visited said club before an received 'Oi, mate'.

FlipFlop
16-09-07, 18:09
I assume this is the same ref in questions as all your other post? Sounds like you didn't agree with him.

As for the quote above, depends on how it is said, and in response to what.

If it's a general greeting - very bad. If the players asked about ref's name, and response is tongue in cheek with a big smile, then fine. And maybe he just doesn't like being called ref during the game, and that is what he is trying to get across.

didds
16-09-07, 18:09
i'd agree with the "he appears somewhat officious" with this starting point.

I'll leave it there ;-)

I was geneuinly interested in whether you guys are instructed by societies to approach terasm thsi way/ (not that IME this is how ref's do it).

cheers

didds

didds
16-09-07, 18:09
I assume this is the same ref in questions as all your other post? Sounds like you didn't agree with him.

the chap was indeed the same ref, yes.

I wouldn't necessarily say I disagree with him... viz. injured player that suddenly has a new lease of life could be that is acceptable from a referee's perspective and training... certainly its a management issue not covered directly by the laws of course.

If its permissable then that's fine. Though it does flag a potential tactic for use by sides with a K advantage being played (ie leave an "injured" player close to the likely mark...).

Viz the grounding query and the chrystal ball gazing I just thought openly indicating that he was working on supposition rather than what he actually saw was a poor management display. ie tantamount to admitting he was making it up on the spot rather than what he'd seen. If he needed to "guess" then just saying "green handling in the ruck, PK" is sufficient... green might disgaree but then its just a call, not any indication that he actually doesn;t know what the proverbial did actually happen!

cheers

didds

Jacko
16-09-07, 21:09
It always makes me chuckle when players old enough to be my dad call me sir. I'd never make them tho - they can call me what they like really as long as it's said in the right tone of voice.

The Saint
16-09-07, 21:09
Sounds a bit of an arse to me.:( Repect should be earned. If a ref had said this to me when I was playing I'd have warned the team that we had a right little ****** in charge.:biggrin:

Gareth-Lee Smith
16-09-07, 22:09
It always makes me chuckle when players old enough to be my dad call me sir. I'd never make them tho - they can call me what they like really as long as it's said in the right tone of voice.

What's even better is refereeing your mates and them calling you sir!

Simon Thomas
16-09-07, 22:09
Not the normal protocol where I come from and certainly not at level 7 ! Sounds a bit of a pompous arse and perhaps out of his confort zone to me.

Of course I introduce myself as Simon (and Society / Federation) but would expect to be 'sir' on the pitch, but at whatever level would not expect to ask to be addressed as such.

Dixie
17-09-07, 11:09
Pre-match chats.

REF : "Hi - my name is Fred. But when the game starts you call me sir".

Thoughts?

Level 7 game.

didds

There will be several of us who know at least one referee called Tibbs. Given the thread title and the negative inference to be drawn from your post, I think it would be best in future to avoid any possibility of people linking a real person to the thread itself - especially as the geographically-challenged among us may draw entirely the wrong conclusions about the person you have in mind.

OB..
17-09-07, 15:09
Dixie - it is a film title (taken from a line in In the Heat of the Night).

I thought it was apposite. If you lean over too far backwards to avoid any remote possibility of upsetting anybody (eg a referee called Fred), you just end up flat on your back.

didds
18-09-07, 21:09
OB has the film quote spot on. Although in the film, Sidney Poitier says this line following extreme provocation from a red neck sherriff that IIRC has just called him "boy" or something similar.

I can assure you that we had not called Fred (that isn't his name either and i do not mean to insult any referees out there that are called Fred) "boy" ;-)

didds

Tibbs
21-09-07, 11:09
Not guilty on this one - I referee'd in Sussex, not where Didds is (Hampshire/Gloucestershire?)...

I'm usually guilty of trying to be too pally, not too officious...

(not MISTER) Tibbs

outofpuff
23-09-07, 18:09
Don't forget sir can be spelt 'cur'.
I think ref sounds OK and shows some respect.

Deeps
23-09-07, 23:09
The annoying thing when refereeing an army game, especially one of the posher regiments, is that 'Sir' is called out all the time but then it's usually only the #13 (Lance Corporal Smith) calling the #12 (Lieutenant Woopert) for a pass.

The Royal Navy seem to have it right where 'Knocker' will tell 'Smudge' to get his act together or 'Bungy' and 'Dusty' will have to sort him out.

The RAF on the other hand....do they play rugby???

Simon Thomas
24-09-07, 09:09
The RAF Vulcans Vets were pretty useful when winning the Jersey Vets 10s last season, disposing of Esher, Richmond and Rennes (France) on the way.

Rew15
24-09-07, 12:09
I'm in my infancy as a referee but I always introduce myself as Andy at clubs and during games the players always seem to call me sir, which I'm still getting used to and find a little odd.:hap:

Greg Collins
24-09-07, 16:09
I'm in my infancy as a referee but I always introduce myself as Andy at clubs and during games the players always seem to call me sir, which I'm still getting used to and find a little odd.:hap:

as a fellow infant I find "Ref" to be the commonest form of address on the park, which I find very odd. When did Rugby Union referees stop being "Sir"?

Always introduce myself as "Greg Collins", adding "from Sussex society" at junior games where society refs may not be the norm, am learning to address the skips by their first names during the game. It seems to work well and allows me to get more formal, via use of "Blue Captain etc..", when I need to escalate things. But what would I do/feel if skip then addressed me as Greg during play? - not sure I'd like it but live by the sword die by the sword I guess.

Simon Thomas
24-09-07, 17:09
Greg

Interesting that you are call Ref - common practice in Hampshire is 'Sir'.
Like you I use "Simon Thomas, Hampshire Society".

There are different schools of thought re using skipper or first name. My view is it depends on your own personality and style of management, and the match in question.

For me all adult men's League, Colts League and Schools matches, it is sir and skipper - vene if I have played against or coached the skipper. Often I will know the skipper of the Hampshire level 8 or 7 club by name, whereas not the visiting Surrey team's skipper so sir avoids any 'home' ref issues . With the younger Colts and Schools players Sir helps me maintain objectivity at that level of match.

Occasionally I have used forenames with skippers during a match, but I don't feel comfortable with it. I know others do and prefer it.

SimonSmith
24-09-07, 18:09
There are different schools of thought re using skipper or first name. My view is it depends on your own personality and style of management, and the match in question.



Interesting question. I tell the captains that if we're on first name terms, we're OK; if I'm forced to get to "Blue captain" or "Red captain" then something is seriously amiss and they REALLY need to listen. It's one of my escalation techniques.

Greg Collins
24-09-07, 18:09
Interesting question. I tell the captains that if we're on first name terms, we're OK; if I'm forced to get to "Blue captain" or "Red captain" then something is seriously amiss and they REALLY need to listen. It's one of my escalation techniques.

Exactly what one of our federation refs suggested at a training session last season.

Mike Whittaker
24-09-07, 18:09
Any number of the Hampshire clubs I visit there will be the friendly 'Hello sir' from those I used to ref. It has the advantage of not having to remember names for them and I don't feel awkward in not remembering theirs.

But then these were the players who always called me 'Sir' when I was reffing and I have to say I think it is a pity to lose the inherent objectivity if you start identifying by name.

As a ref you are not 'one of the lads' and never can be...

OB..
24-09-07, 20:09
In Gloucestershire, "Ref" is the norm. Well, the polite norm, anyway.

Deeps
25-09-07, 01:09
As a ref you are not 'one of the lads' and never can be...

Well I like to think of myself as the 31st player and the spectator with the best view. One of these days, when I am following up a play in the chariot position 5 metres short of the line and get a short pop then I am going to score the b'tard too. :biggrin:

Mike Whittaker
25-09-07, 05:09
Well I like to think of myself as the 31st player and the spectator with the best view. One of these days, when I am following up a play in the chariot position 5 metres short of the line and get a short pop then I am going to score the b'tard too. :biggrin:

Have seen it done. However defending side did tell him what might happen if he touched the ball again... He didn't :nono:

Deeps
25-09-07, 12:09
Agree, one would have to pick the game very carefully and be assured of the atmosphere otherwise you might become aware of players hovering near you for the rest of the game.

ctrainor
25-09-07, 13:09
I wouldn't dream of saying that no matter what level I was at.
As somebody said you would immediately lose the respect of players. you should treat them with the respect you deserve.
Difficulty for me is refereeing my own and Local clubs who know me well and sometimes call mr by my christian name.
A gentle reminder is usually suffice.

peperami
28-09-07, 15:09
Interesting question. I tell the captains that if we're on first name terms, we're OK; if I'm forced to get to "Blue captain" or "Red captain" then something is seriously amiss and they REALLY need to listen. It's one of my escalation techniques.

I have found the following works for me, introduce your self to the captains when you speak to them by first name, get there name and as soon as your done write it on the scorecard above the team name.

The players then tend including the skipper to refer to me as sir on the pitch, and I use their first names trying to maintain the empathy with them.

Though i do like the blue captain red captain escalation I may well try that.

Afterwards in the bar, I do not how the players address me as long as its not insulting or abusive.

Greg Collins
28-09-07, 15:09
I have found the following works for me, introduce your self to the captains when you speak to them by first name, get there name and as soon as your done write it on the scorecard above the team name.

The players then tend including the skipper to refer to me as sir on the pitch, and I use their first names trying to maintain the empathy with them.

Though i do like the blue captain red captain escalation I may well try that.

Afterwards in the bar, I do not how the players address me as long as its not insulting or abusive.

I've taken to writing down their number and position on my card as well. Saves looking daft, and in the wrong place, whilst saying "Blue Captain and Blue 11 to me" whilst thinking "oh b*ll*cks Blue 11 is the captain..." when only one person comes over.

evilad
30-09-07, 20:09
Being a forces player/ref, we automatically address officials as "sir/ ma'am". Having played alongside civillians they found it strange that you called a ref "sir", Tho we were never told to call them that. It seems strange that a ref asked to be addressed such. As a rather gobby hooker, I would have milked it for all that i could. Awwww but "sir" surely that was our penalty. then when the ref complains that i am being a pain in his arse i can reply " but you yold us to call you sir". Earn the respect from the teams , and they will address you correctly