PDA

View Full Version : Bounce Lineout in RWC



callumref
22-09-07, 09:09
In a RWC match i saw on TV today, Wales vs France. France had kicked the ball and it bounced over the touch line about 5 metres out from the Wales goal line. Wales then (once everyone was in the lineout) threw the ball in. The throw was a bounce. It bounced before it travelled the required distance of 5m and a French player picked it up after the bounce and put it down over the try line. The referee awarded no try after consulting the TJ and had the ball thrown in by Wales again. Right decision?

Simon Griffiths
22-09-07, 10:09
The ref seemed to be still sorting out things in and around the line-out when the Irish hooker threw in. (That's how I remember reading it). I would probably have done the same thing. However, I suspect the incident would be brought up by his assessor because it was a little scrappy in the way it appeared to be dealt with.

However, had the ref not been managing the line-out still, then there is no reason why a similar situation should not have been a try.

callumref
22-09-07, 10:09
Yer i agree advantage aplies:clap:

oxped
22-09-07, 10:09
The way I saw it, Chris White had his back to the hooker and was dealing with the lineout, and when he turned round he saw a `French player lying in goal with the ball. The first thing he said was "what happened there"?

I think I would rather he said do it again, than to take a guess at what happened. Maybe he should have consulted his TJ more before deciding to just take it again??

If he had seen it I think he would have awarded the try.

callumref
22-09-07, 10:09
He could of even gone to the TMO. Either way it didnt really affect the game :)

Dixie
22-09-07, 11:09
I don't think the TMO was a possibility. Questions to be asked all arose in the field of play, hence outside the TMO's remit. Did the ball travel 5m? Was the Irish hooker interfered with to make him lose control of the ball? Was it a genuine throw, or did the hooker just drop the ball?

I don't think the throw was too early in that Chris was managing the lineout - he was just taken by surprise and reacted with a NO NO NO, I'm not having that. It would have been better if he'd put time off and consulted with the TJ to see if HE had the answer to those questions. But having led with his instincts, he made the best of what was before him.

oxped
22-09-07, 11:09
He clearly said:

"what happened there?"

so he can't of seen it.

The ball did't go 5 but it would have been advantage to france anyway. The ball slipped from the hookers hand but so what?

Dixie
22-09-07, 12:09
The ball did't go 5 but it would have been advantage to france anyway. The ball slipped from the hookers hand but so what? I'm not sure that it wouldn't have gone 5m left to its own devices. I know this has been discussed in detail several times here already, but I'm always uncomfortable with the idea that the prohibition on preventing the ball travelling 5m doesn't apply to both sides.

OB..
22-09-07, 12:09
My initial impression was that Wales thought they had a penalty of some sort (numbers?) and the throw on to the ground was the equivalent of the scrum half dropping the ball when he did not want to play advantage. However I have not had a chance to re-examine the incident.

Does dropping the ball accidentally constitute throwing it in?

If the winger retrieves the ball and throws it to the hooker as he trots towards the touch line, is that a throw in? Sometimes that is used as a deliberate ploy, on other occasions he is simply giving him the ball. How far do you have to read intent into the throw?

Chris White was certainly correct to ask his TJ what he saw. It would appear Chris decided the ball had not been thrown in, therefore play had not re-started, therefore advantage could not apply.

As to 5 metres, the ball has to travel that distance in the air, so if it hits the ground, the opponents cannot be accused of preventing that.

The standard penalty for an incorrect throw is a scrum or another lineout, but there is no prohibition on playing advantage.

didds
23-09-07, 00:09
i thought it was ireland!

OB..
23-09-07, 01:09
Yes, of course it was.

(It just shows how unbiased I am that I don't recall teams ... :D )

Gareth-Lee Smith
23-09-07, 19:09
If he'd seen the incident, then it should've been a try. If he didn't, he should've consulted with the touch judge.

OB..
26-09-07, 21:09
Study of the video showed that both sides had jumpers in the air before the ball was released. Invalid lineout. Reset.

Account Deleted
04-10-07, 12:10
In a RWC match i saw on TV today, Wales vs France.


No wonder we are out of the RWC having to play Australia, Canada, Fiji and Japan in one group and Aregentina, France, Georgia, Ireland and Namibia in another!

:chin:

Dixie
04-10-07, 14:10
No wonder we are out of the RWC having to play Australia, Canada, Fiji and Japan in one group and Aregentina, France, Georgia, Ireland and Namibia in another!

:chin:

I think the problem was that while you turned up for several of these games, you elected not to play in many of them.:biggrin:

England has the same problem - as did Ireland.