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View Full Version : "Oh yes it did!" "Oh no it didn't!"



Greg Collins
24-09-07, 09:09
Conversion attempt is kicked, U16 League game, TJ's are crazed touchline parents/coaches. Nice high straight kick which crosses goal line way above the top of the posts. You are following up and feel you are perfectly placed to see ball pass about a balls length outside the line of the post.

Non-scoring sides TJ does nothing, kicking sides touch judge, who is "on" the post in question raises his flag; non-scoring side's TJ looks at him and raises his flag. Ref looks on in stunned disbelief, shakes his head, scoring TJ points at non-scoring TJ as if to say "He's given it as well" and despite his doubts ref awards the conversion.

Right or wrong? Either way any tips on how I manage it if it happens again?

Pablo
24-09-07, 09:09
Under those circumstances, it's ref's choice - and your decision is final. You say the scoring TJ was under the contentious post, so he certainly had the best view - and there's no way of telling on an internet forum if he was biased or not! If you, as ref, were stood where you ought to be (ie., behind the kicker so that you can follow the flight of the ball), then you give it (or not) as you see it, regardless of the TJs' flags. If approached after the game, state your position as such - giving the conversion is your decision, and the TJs are only ever decision-making aids. Since they were unhelpful on this particular occasion, you made up your own mind!

OB..
24-09-07, 10:09
Law 6.B.3 The referee has control over both touch judges. The referee may tell them what their duties are, and may overrule their decisions.

Simon Thomas
24-09-07, 10:09
OB gives the Law and Pablo practical solutions.

It is your decision and with non-appointed TJs you may well be better placed to make the judgement.

PaulDG
24-09-07, 10:09
Law 6.B.3 The referee has control over both touch judges. The referee may tell them what their duties are, and may overrule their decisions.

Absolutely True.

Though, as assessors have pointed out to me, if you overrule touch judges, you'll quickly find you don't have any. So the advice I was given is "only overrule if you're very, very sure".

Greg Collins
24-09-07, 11:09
Absolutely True.

Though, as assessors have pointed out to me, if you overrule touch judges, you'll quickly find you don't have any. So the advice I was given is "only overrule if you're very, very sure".

Certitude and the self-confidence to go with it are two different things, worse luck.

I was given similar advice re overruling touch judges i.e. don't ever do it unless they are indisputably wrong. I've done it a few times on dreadful touch line calls favouring their side when they've been in no place to judge but this was the first time this scenario has come up.

Greg Collins
24-09-07, 11:09
and there's no way of telling on an internet forum if he was biased or not!

No way of telling on the park either! I had no problems with any of his other calls yesterday, not the case with the 'other' guy(s) whose opinion of his kickers touch kicking ability was somewhat exagerated...

Dickie E
24-09-07, 11:09
I don't really know why the TJs bother going behind the posts. As a referee I've never had any problem deciding if a kick is successful or not.

Simon Thomas
24-09-07, 12:09
Simple Dickie, make TJs run behind posts so they are out of breath and can't shout in helpful 'comments' !

(just in case - my tongue is in my cheek)

AlanT
24-09-07, 18:09
Greg - hope it wasn't Crawley v Worthing, as pretty much the same thing happened to me last season in a very tight U16 game.

Differences from yours were: (a) both TJs were from the kicker's team, and (b) I decided to overruled them!

Alan .............

Greg Collins
24-09-07, 18:09
Hi Alan

hope you had a good weekend Rugby wise et al.

Nope, neither Crawley or Worthing's sons were harmed in Sunday morning's failure to face down the TJ's. I think MrM keeps me well away from our home town's sides/clubs and prefers me either down on the coast or in the wilds of rural West Sussex! I did laugh when the home TJ , before the start, said "Has your side not brought a touch judge then?", "My side? No the Society doesn't do teams of three at this level!"