PDA

View Full Version : Free kick for not taking the hit at a scrum



Gareth-Lee Smith
18-10-07, 22:10
Firstly, my full report on today's match can be found at http://www.therugbypitch.co.uk/blog

But, the issue I have is this paragraph:

"The game was very evenly matched throughout with the exception of one area: the scrums. From the very first scrum there was indication that this would be a problem area. It centred around Blue being a very strong scrummaging unit: as far as I could tell there was nothing illegal, but every scrum wheeled. This was yet another first in that Iíve never before had to manage the scrummage so thoroughly. I began with the instruction (as I did in my brief) to drive straight and flat. Flat wasnít a problem, but straight was. It seemed to me that Black was not taking the hit. I allowed 3 or 4 attempts which wheeled before giving a Free Kick against Black for not remaining stationary and parallel as per law 20.1 (k). Looking back, itís a decision Iím not sure of the legitimacy of, but there was no moaning. Any comments?"

David J.
19-10-07, 00:10
Stationary and parallel applies to before the ball is put in.

Was the wheel happening before ball in or after?

If before and Blue is stronger, I'd consider a free kick against Blue. If Black isn't engaging, then it's a free kick against Black, but it sounds like Blue is stronger, but lacks control.

If the wheel is happening after the ball's in...play on until 90 then reset to the team not in possession. If that happens repeatedly and even when Blue is putting in...I don't know what to do then.

PaulDG
19-10-07, 06:10
Stationary and parallel applies to before the ball is put in.

Was the wheel happening before ball in or after?

If before and Blue is stronger, I'd consider a free kick against Blue. If Black isn't engaging, then it's a free kick against Black, but it sounds like Blue is stronger, but lacks control.

If the wheel is happening after the ball's in...play on until 90 then reset to the team not in possession. If that happens repeatedly and even when Blue is putting in...I don't know what to do then.

It was a school match. No deliberate wheel, limit of accidental wheel, 45 degrees. Limit of push, 1.5m.

Dinks
19-10-07, 09:10
For a dominant scrum, I tell them that none of their front row's feet are to move ahead of the mark under any circumstances until the ball is in. It is their responsibility and it will be liable to penalty should it happen. FK to weaker pack soon sorts out the stronger pack's approach.

Gareth-Lee Smith
19-10-07, 09:10
Interesting approach, Dinks, and certainly justifiable in law. Anybody got any views on that?

Dixie
19-10-07, 09:10
GLS, your approach was reasonable if you thought they were deliberately wimping out to milk a FK, but possibly not correct in law otherwise as neither side is permitted to push until the ball is in. There should not therefore be much of a hit to take - especially under CTPE. Admittedly at this level, the ball is often put in as soon as the FR's come together, particularly if the side putting in has the weaker pack, so it can be hard to spot the moment. I like Dinks's approach, which respects the idea they must delay their shove. I'll try to implement that tomorrow.

Gareth-Lee Smith
19-10-07, 09:10
There we go, I've learned something. I also came unstuck when I remembered the law of engagement - it's an invitation to engage and not an order.

Thanks guys, lessons learned.

Simon Thomas
19-10-07, 10:10
Gareth-Lee

This is always a tough one to handle and needs your clear & consistent management. Your first and key priority is safety - if at any stage this is compromised go to un-contested scrums (especially in Wales after the Volwes injury liability case !) after failing to get the problem sorted by discussion with FRs, skippers and (at youth level) the coaches.

As PaulDG says at U19 level - no deliberate wheel, no more than 45 degrees.

So work through all the key elements with FR and 2R (and coaches)

- are they tightly bound to each other prior to engagement
- is distance right on CTPE and are they parallel to each other - no 'dog leg' ?
- are all six of them at same height on engagement, feet back and balanced, shoulders parallel across and towards opposition, and correct height from ground (shouklders and hips) ?
- are props engaging cleanly and onto shoulders, and not sliding up or down, or sideways?
- is there an early shove from FR or 2R ?
- are all four props pushing - straight and parallel ?
- are all binds correct ?
- is a prop 'pulling on' ?

Once you have been through the check list and all is ok, then you still have a dominant FR situation which you need to manage carefully (more difficult with in-experienced youth). Sometimes I use the quiet word approach - "you are much stronger than him, please dominate don't destroy, ok ? Remember my first concern is everyone's safety".

Or perhaps a very slow an methodical CTPE and call to keep static (this puts responsibilty on stronger side or player to just equalise pressure). PaulDG and Dinks have already decsribed the next options !

FlipFlop
20-10-07, 09:10
I often find the threat to go uncontested, if delivered properly to the stronger side works very well.

Boost their ego,tell them you know they are stronger, but that safety is your concern, and if they want to stay contested then they need to work with you.