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john_morris
19-11-07, 16:11
Level 9 game. At the first line-out to Red the Blue hooker standing near the throw-in position took a bunch of grass and threw it in the air more or less in line of sight of the Red fowards preparing to jump. I noticed it and did nothing. At the next line-out he did it again and I blew up and awarded a PK for 'unsportsmanlike behaviour'. In my opinion the blue hooker knew exactly what he was doing and was trying to put off the Red thrower and line-out.

I called the Captain over and the offending player and told them such behaviour was unacceptable. Bizarrely, the Red team came over and said they didn't mind and it wasn't putting them off.

I awarded the PK from where the offense took place. Should it have been from the 15 metre line? The line out was formed, but it wasn't a 'lineout offence. What do others think?

beckett50
19-11-07, 16:11
Should have been on the 15m line, since it was a lineout offence and the lineout wasn't over.

Correct decision, but perhaps it could have been avoided by having a little chat with the oppo hooker whilst the next line was forming - assuming there had been no break in play since the preceding lineout

john_morris
19-11-07, 17:11
Fair enough - and I take the point about having a chat. Unfortunately, the first time he did it I thought he was just pratting about. The second time I saw him do it I knew it was a deliberate ploy. My assessor said he was very happy about the PK being given. He agreed that the Blue Hooker deserved what he got. I should have admitted that I couldn't remember where he said it should have been from when we talked about it in the debrief!

I try to talk to the players about previous minor offences. It was in the same game that No 18 took a drop out and there were players in front of him. It wasn't material to what happened next as the ball was put into touch. As the line-out formed I asked for Blue 18 and found he was the other side of the park at outside centre. We never did have the little chat about getting it right next time.

beckett50
19-11-07, 17:11
If you have an assessor present it is often worth lightly touching player when you are talking to him. Could be in the act of jogging to a lineout and thanking a player for his actions at a previous breakdown etc.

Lets the assessor know that you are communicating with players in the down time

Gareth-Lee Smith
19-11-07, 17:11
Keeping in with my signature's forewarning - am I the only one who would not have penalised this?

FlipFlop
19-11-07, 17:11
I can understand the rationale, but would be unlike to penalise. Sounds like the other side weren't aware/worried. So a quiet word asking the hooker to stop being an idiot is all I would do.

PeterH
19-11-07, 17:11
I find this is similar to the old "let's all shout as loud as we can while they try to get their call in" ploy...

It just P's me off :)

A quick word usually suffices - but if they ignore it - I will penalise

Emmet Murphy
19-11-07, 18:11
I have to say I really do hate it when I penalise a player and then someone from the oppo pipes up cheerfully that they don't mind them doing it ... :mad:

Dixie
19-11-07, 18:11
Should have been on the 15m line, since it was a lineout offence and the lineout wasn't over.
I think the answer is correct, but I'm not so sure of the reasoning. The Lineout had not finished, but nor had it yet started -
Law 19.8(a): Lineout begins. The lineout begins when the ball leaves the
hands of the player throwing it in.

In this instance, the ball was dead when the offence of unsportsmanlike behaviour took place. In such circumstances, 10.4(l) applies, and the restart is 15m in from the point where play would restart.

Account Deleted
20-11-07, 08:11
Delaying the throw comes before the line out starts but the Free Kick is still on the 15 so I would follow the same rational.

I saw a game at the beginnign of the season in the Welsh premiership where not one Pen / Free Kick or Scrum following a line out offence was taken on the 15 untill around 5 mins from the end. The ref gave then all on the 5 metre line (at least he was consistent:wink: )).

Simon Thomas
20-11-07, 10:11
It depends on your managment style and needs in the match. A PK at the first time you realise it is deliberate is pretty hard and authoritarian, I would prefer to use a friendly warning at that stage.


Lets the assessor know that you are communicating with players in the down time

Hampshire have invested some of our Sponsor's money in 6 mike transmitter / earpiece receiver sets (so one way) for referee and adviser/ referee coach /assessor use. It is the same equipment that SWGroup are using.

This enables them to hear all the referee's verbal communication during the match.

So far it has been very beneficial.

AndyKidd
20-11-07, 11:11
Having been the proud user of said reciever this weekend I can honestly say that it gives you a whole new insight into what is happening on the pitch. The communication on Saturday was excellent. The problem being, without the radio mike, I would never have know how good it was and how well the ref was controlling the game.

Definately a very useful piece of equipment

Ian_Cook
21-11-07, 03:11
Level 9 game. At the first line-out to Red the Blue hooker standing near the throw-in position took a bunch of grass and threw it in the air more or less in line of sight of the Red fowards preparing to jump. I noticed it and did nothing. At the next line-out he did it again and I blew up and awarded a PK for 'unsportsmanlike behaviour'. In my opinion the blue hooker knew exactly what he was doing and was trying to put off the Red thrower and line-out.

I called the Captain over and the offending player and told them such behaviour was unacceptable. Bizarrely, the Red team came over and said they didn't mind and it wasn't putting them off.

I awarded the PK from where the offense took place. Should it have been from the 15 metre line? The line out was formed, but it wasn't a 'lineout offence. What do others think?

No offense John, but I find awarding a penalty for something so trivial a little pedantic, particularly since when you saw it the first time, you said and did nothing. The hooker has as much right to test the wind speed and direction as the goal-kicker. I have always tended to give the benefit of the doubt with this sort of thing, prefering to manage it by saying something like "Blue 2, if you want to test the wind, do it away from your opponent's line of sight". That way, you have let the player know you are onto him, but you are still allowing him some latitude to make his own decision not to try it on.

If he continued to do his grass throwing in the same place, then ping him!

SimonSmith
21-11-07, 13:11
No offense John, but I find awarding a penalty for something so trivial a little pedantic, particularly since when you saw it the first time, you said and did nothing. The hooker has as much right to test the wind speed and direction as the goal-kicker. I have always tended to give the benefit of the doubt with this sort of thing, prefering to manage it by saying something like "Blue 2, if you want to test the wind, do it away from your opponent's line of sight". That way, you have let the player know you are onto him, but you are still allowing him some latitude to make his own decision not to try it on.

If he continued to do his grass throwing in the same place, then ping him!


I don't disagree with the pedantry comment (sorry John) but have a problem with your rationale here.
What reason does the non throwing hooker have to test the wind?

PeterH
21-11-07, 13:11
As a player - I heard oppo hookers saying it isn't windy sir...
Implying a squint throw was "intentional" I assume

Maybe this was similar
But who knows what goes through hooker's minds :)

tim White
21-11-07, 14:11
The guy throwing grass is taking the p**s, warn him and the problem will probably go away. If not ping him. It is better than someone whacking him, as will surely happen if you don't stop it.

Davet
23-11-07, 13:11
Strike me as similar to the hooker who shouts loudly and continually to his own team about "clear up the cr@p, don't them come through... etc. etc" with the real objective of drowning out the throwing sides calls -I generally tell 'em to shut up.

didds
24-11-07, 23:11
If you have an assessor present it is often worth lightly touching player when you are talking to him. Could be in the act of jogging to a lineout and thanking a player for his actions at a previous breakdown etc.

Lets the assessor know that you are communicating with players in the down time

So you would't have a similar approach if an assessor weren't there?

didds

beckett50
25-11-07, 08:11
Yes, its now habit, and one that I am comfortable with. Haven't yet met a player that objects.

But its like anything in this game. When you start out, the tendency is to amplify things if you have an assessor present:)