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Number8
27-08-05, 00:08
Could someone explain the English grading system? What does "9+1" mean?
In the US it's still C1 - 3, B1 - 3, and A1 - 2.

OB..
27-08-05, 00:08
Leagues are numbered down from 1 (Guinness Premiership), so each club in the leagues has a level. For the club's 2nd XV, add 3, then 3 again for the 3rd XV etc.

Referees are now graded according to these levels, so that a level 9 referee can take games at level 9 or below (below = higher level number).

To allow referees to move up, they may be appointed to games 1 (+1) or 2 (+2) levels above their basic grade. Note, however, that this must be a formal appointment - they should not volunteer to referee above their basic grade.

chef11
27-08-05, 02:08
Here in the US. A level 9 would be a B-3

Simon Griffiths
27-08-05, 11:08
Here's the English league levels. (http://www.s124947777.websitehome.co.uk/League%20Levels.ppt)

The first page was unceremoniously nicked from a Manchester & District Newsletter (take it as a compliment! :) ).

As OB said, a referee's grade is the number of the level they are felt competent to referee at. The +1 or +2 indicates how many levels higher the committee may appoint them to (not more than 2). The lower the number, the higher the grade.

Here's a little bit explaining the English transition from the B1-C3 system to the numbered one. (http://www.gladref.ndo.co.uk/members/newgrades.htm)

chef11
27-08-05, 14:08
Thanks for the document,this is very helpful in the fact that most US assessor's do not understand the conversion.

Deeps
27-08-05, 22:08
Hampshire does not use the +1, +2 nomenclature. If the appointer decides to play you one up then, having consulted as appropriate, he will do so. It seems a little pointless having a +2 after your grade; to me this means either your grade is too low, you are inconsistent and of variable performance or the games have not been graded properly.

Robert Burns
27-08-05, 22:08
What does the Navy do?

Mike Whittaker
27-08-05, 23:08
What does the Navy do?


Leading question...... :eek:

OB..
28-08-05, 00:08
+1, +2 indicates that you are being considered for promotion. If you have no suffix, then either you are newly promoted, or are deemed to have reached your limit. It also helps the appointments secretary keep track. Our people seem to find it useful.

Mike Whittaker
28-08-05, 10:08
+1, +2 indicates that you are being considered for promotion. If you have no suffix, then either you are newly promoted, or are deemed to have reached your limit. It also helps the appointments secretary keep track. Our people seem to find it useful.

Whilst a society may wish to keep a clear record of the potential of its members I really don't see it as being part of their grading. To my simple mind a grading should be a considered measure of competence, that a player is deemed as competent to referee any game at that level within his societies appointments.

I strongly oppose any attempts by societies to assign grades on any other basis, be it an over grading in an attempt to progress a developing referee with selected appoinments, or even under grading because of lack of potential or 'clearing out the old referees at that level to make way for the young ones coming through'.

As for the +1 and +2 I feel that these can be missleading if used on exchanges (are they?) as they do not have a clearly defined meaning across societies. But then maybe they are just used internally?? :confused:

Deeps
28-08-05, 15:08
What does the Navy do?

Same as Hampshire Robert but then like Hampshire it is perhaps not one of the larger societies. When I joined the Royal Navy it was 93,000 strong and you had to wear a name tally. Now it is so small they all know each other, same is true of the Referees' Society.

The appointers in both cases make it their business to know their parishoners.

didds
28-08-05, 18:08
presumably it means when you were last assessed that you are at a level, BUT the possibility remains that by some stage in the future you may be capable of reffing 1 or 2 levels higher and so need some exposure to those levels to try you out and to gain experience.

Presumably an assessment with no + figure means you are not perceived of being able to ref at any higher levels at all.

didds

Mike Whittaker
28-08-05, 19:08
presumably it means when you were last assessed that you are at a level, BUT the possibility remains that by some stage in the future you may be capable of reffing 1 or 2 levels higher and so need some exposure to those levels to try you out and to gain experience.

Presumably an assessment with no + figure means you are not perceived of being able to ref at any higher levels at all.

didds

Presumably... but the prospect of a referee being 'given exposure' to a level 2 higher than one for which he has been assessed as competent leaves me feeling a little concerned. No doubt the insurance angle has all been checked out but should players expect to be managed by someone so much lower graded.

Incidentally I have seen a number of older experienced referees stand in at short notice to take over games a little above their grade and prove quite safe and reliable. Leaves me feeling it is all a little untidy. :confused:

OB..
28-08-05, 19:08
the prospect of a referee being 'given exposure' to a level 2 higher than one for which he has been assessed as competent leaves me feeling a little concerned. How can you be assessed as competent before you are tried out?

As I understand it, the +2 marks agreement that this referee, having proved his competence at level X, is thought capable of progressing fairly rapidly, and could safely be tried 2 levels higher. +1 is a slightly more cautious assessment. (It is perhaps an anomaly that +2 really means -2 because 7 is 2 levels higher than 9. :rolleyes: )

I only know of this usage internally, and I agree it does not make much sense for exchanges, which should be on your basic grade.

Deeps
28-08-05, 23:08
So +1, +2 has nothing to do with grading therefore. It is an appointer's note to file to consider providing games of difficulty +1, +2 more than the referee's current grading in preparation for promotion to a higher grade. Apart from this forum, are referees' grades made generally available for all and sundry to consult, I sincerely hope not? Surely we do not wish to be in a situation where teams can look up their next week's referee's grade do we?

So is it a thing of vanity I wonder? Are we just blowing our trumpets to impress our peers that we are on the way up?

Does anyone have a grading -1, -2 that he might like to crow about?

Mike Whittaker
28-08-05, 23:08
Surely we do not wish to be in a situation where teams can look up their next week's referee's grade do we?



Instinctively I agree with you.... but objectively I ask 'Why not?'

OB..
29-08-05, 02:08
Our referees' grades are on the website. As far as I know it has never caused a problem, not even now that they are more transparent.

And No. The +1, +2 is not there. Maybe I'll ask the grading committee about it.

(I am not at all clear why people are so bothered.)

Jacko
29-08-05, 20:08
I think it's applied differently from society to society. All of Oxfordshire's grades are available on our website. I'm level 9 at present (no +1 etc) yet have done higher graded matches, just as I did level 9 matches before I was given my level 9 status. I doubt any of the players really mind as long as a ref turns up so they can get a match.

Simon Griffiths
03-09-05, 11:09
I'm not aware that the +2 is actually official is it? (I'm just following the trend) and simply states what is the same for everyone. (I.e. under the RFU guidelines any referee can be appointed up to two levels above his grade - if the committee feel it necessary/advantageous - therefore the +2 is quite pointless). Whether other societies use the +1/+2 to show possibility for promotion I don't know, but technically anyone can go +2 (with committee approval).