PDA

View Full Version : maul 10-15m out: YC or PT?



ex-lucy
13-02-08, 13:02
EDF Vase - 18-15 to the home side.
The ref gave a YC for the home flanker burrowing into the side of a maul about 10-15 metres out.
The assessor said he ought to have awarded a penalty try.
Level 5 ref in a level 8/9 cup match.

OB..
13-02-08, 13:02
Too little information to assess the situation.

10-15 metres out sounds a long way to me, but there may have been other factors, such as what happened at previous mauls.

A ref accustomed to L5 play should adjust his expectations downwards slightly when refereeing L8. It sounds as if the assessor thought he had adjusted too far. In which case I would expect that to be reflected in other decisions as well.

cymrubach
13-02-08, 14:02
Can't see any reason to agree with the assessor with what's been stated here.

Had all the previous 15 points (3 tries?) been scored from driving mauls this far out? Had the away side mauled the length of the pitch only to have stopped in the 10/15mtrs by illegal play....?

Even if eithor of those scenarios had been present I would have serious reservations with awarding a PT that far out.

tim White
13-02-08, 15:02
Probably just warned the flanker again about coming in at the side. Penalty try sounds hard to justify but I would have considered it (breifly), of course.;)

truck'n'trailor
13-02-08, 16:02
I think you would be hard pressed to justify a penalty try in those circumstances...:confused:

SimonSmith
13-02-08, 16:02
Did the maul come down?

Because if so, I can see circumstances in which a PT could be on the cards. Mind you, I spent 4 years living in Leicester....

cymrubach
13-02-08, 17:02
Did the maul come down?

Even so, Simon 10 to 15 meters out, could you really say a try would have been scored from there?

ex-lucy
13-02-08, 17:02
probably = 75% chance of a try being scored?
from 10-15m can a ref really tell that probably a try was going to be scored?
how could an assessor?
no previous dropped mauls.
no rolling maul from half way.
previous pens in 22m? yes.

personally, i think this is similar to another current thred about collapsed scrums and PT being awarded. Some assessors say yes, and some say no just a card.

where do we stand ?

Toby Warren
13-02-08, 18:02
15 m out sounds to far for my taste, how often do you see what appears to be a perfrectly good maul simply 'deflate' - YC no problem PT can't see it based on the info above.

Even a fast moving maul is going to take 10ish seconds to get to the line - heaps of things can change in that time.

OB..
13-02-08, 18:02
Was the assessor really that definite? I might well have asked a referee if he thought about a PT, just so as to discuss the whys and wherefores in case a better example arises in another match.

If he was that definite, then it was a Critical Incident. Did this feature in the assessor's report?

SimonSmith
13-02-08, 18:02
Even so, Simon 10 to 15 meters out, could you really say a try would have been scored from there?


Bitter experience from some cold afternoons at Welford Road in the early 90s would suggest that it is certainly viable, yes.

ex-lucy
13-02-08, 18:02
Was the assessor really that definite? I might well have asked a referee if he thought about a PT, just so as to discuss the whys and wherefores in case a better example arises in another match.

If he was that definite, then it was a Critical Incident. Did this feature in the assessor's report?

yes, he was definite.
i thought that was what assessors/ advisors did.. supply ideas for discussion and thoughts for incidents in future matches.
Assessor marked it down as CI.

in a level 9 league match, similar incident, player got a YC: no PT.
The advisor did just that as per above ... provided an idea for discussion .. "did the idea of a PT cross your mind?"
"no"

i cant think of any occasions when i would have awarded a PT for coming in the side of a maul.
dropping the maul close to the line? yes.

KML1
13-02-08, 19:02
V harsh from what you have given. I have given a PT for such an offence but the maul had gone from the half way line when the guy did it so was a no brainer in that circumstance. Came in from the side and took out the ball carrier.

beckett50
13-02-08, 20:02
probably = 75% chance of a try being scored?
from 10-15m can a ref really tell that probably a try was going to be scored?
how could an assessor?
no previous dropped mauls.
no rolling maul from half way.
previous pens in 22m? yes.

personally, i think this is similar to another current thred about collapsed scrums and PT being awarded. Some assessors say yes, and some say no just a card.

where do we stand ?

Its a judgement call and can only be made with the facts in front of you, since each situtation will be different.

I do agree that the assessor was unduly harsh - based upon the information that has so far been provided.

Padster
13-02-08, 21:02
You can always disagree with an assessors view :) I didn't agree with what an advisor saw as a critical incident in one of my games. We agreed to differ and certainly won't fall out over it as he continues to be a great help to me.

cymrubach
13-02-08, 23:02
yes, he was definite.
i thought that was what assessors/ advisors did.. supply ideas for discussion and thoughts for incidents in future matches.
Assessor marked it down as CI.

in a level 9 league match, similar incident, player got a YC: no PT.
The advisor did just that as per above ... provided an idea for discussion .. "did the idea of a PT cross your mind?"
"no"

i cant think of any occasions when i would have awarded a PT for coming in the side of a maul.
dropping the maul close to the line? yes.

Exlucy, As an assessor/advisor/mentor I simply cannot agree with what was said. Discussion yes, but from what you've said about the incident there is no realistic way a penalty try comes into the equation....was he a new assessor?