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MT07
27-02-08, 11:02
Watching an U17 match Red kicked into in goal, Green instead of touching down tried to kick out. Red charged down the kick and the ball went dead. Ref originally indicated a 22 drop out (22.7 a) then changed his mind and gave a 5 metre attacking scum. Thoughts?

Wert Twacky
27-02-08, 12:02
The thing to remember here is who played the ball into in goal? So, if the attacking side did (red) and they then make the ball dead (by charging down the kick), it should have been a 22m drop-out.

If the defenders played the ball into in goal and they then make it dead, then it would have been a 5m scrum, but it appears the ref got it wrong and should have gone with his original instinct.

I've said it before I know, but try and keep things simple in your mind when in a pressure situ like the one you described. This pearl of wisdom was imparted onto me by a panel ref when I asked him the very same question as originaly posed.

"Who played it in goal?" Defence - scrum, attack - 22. Hope that helps.

Dixie
27-02-08, 12:02
Agree with WertTwacky. I initially thought that it might make a difference if the kick had cleared the goal line before being charged down, but then realised that the attackers would have caused the ball to go dead - also a 22m drop-out.

As so often - go with your gut instinct. I am also broadly opposed to refs changing their decision - it gives the impression that a decision is open to negotiation. When I screw up (and it's sadly not an unusual occurrence!), I try to own up to the mistake but explain that I am not empowered to change the decision. Apologies to the disadvantaged side, go with the original decision.

Toby Warren
27-02-08, 14:02
Agree with the above replies

I just use the line 'how did it get there not how did it leave' seems to work for me.

Andyr8603
27-02-08, 14:02
The one that I always have a double take on, is, defence pass the ball, often from the base of the scrum to the fly-half who is in-goal, he kicks and it is charged down in in-goal and goes dead, decision?

OB..
27-02-08, 14:02
The one that I always have a double take on, is, defence pass the ball, often from the base of the scrum to the fly-half who is in-goal, he kicks and it is charged down in in-goal and goes dead, decision?
The defending team put the ball into in-goal, and failed to get it out again. 5m scrum as per the points made above.

Wert Twacky
27-02-08, 15:02
Andyr,

That one depends on where the ball is when the attackers charge the kick down.
So, if the defending fly-half (stood in goal) recieves and kicks the ball and the ball is still in goal (ie not gone past the tryline) when the attackers charge down and it goes dead, then it's a 5-metre scrum. The defence played the ball in goal and failed to play the ball out of in goal. Follow?

If the defending fly-half kicks out of in goal and the ball has passed the tryline, and then the attacker charges the ball down and it goes touch in goal/dead, then it's a 22 metre drop-out as the defence have cleared their in goal and it's the attackers who played the ball in goal and made it dead.


Try and visualise where the ball was/is when charged down. You have to be right on the money thou!

ex-lucy
27-02-08, 15:02
how about this one .. last weds ... scrum 5 defence put in.
9 pass to 10 who attempts a miss pass across back line to outside centre .. but slightly miscued as ball comes off the bar then goes into the ingoal area ... touched down by defensive Full Back.
I went with a scrum 5 attacking put in. But it came off the bar last .. not a player.

Wert Twacky
27-02-08, 15:02
ex-lucy,

I'd go with the 5m scrum attacking put in like you say as the bar is part of ingoal. Defence played it in ingoal and failed big style to play out.

Phil E
27-02-08, 15:02
First time the ball went into in goal was from the defenders scrum, so they took it into in goal, hitting the bar just meant it never left in goal, so yes %m attacking scrum.

Once the ball has been taken into in goal loads can hapen before the ball goes dead, but it all comes back to who put it into in goal in the first place.

Unless of course OB says otherwise, which is the only exception I would consider :clap:

OB..
27-02-08, 17:02
Unless of course OB says otherwise, which is the only exception I would consider :clap:
Unless that is sarcams, it is flattering, but I wish you wouldn't do it anyway http://www.freepowerboards.com/rugbyfirst/users/44/smilies/icon_redface.gif (http://www.freepowerboards.com/rugbyfirst/posting.php?mode=reply&f=3&t=556#)

Toby Warren
27-02-08, 17:02
Ex Lucy

My line he who takes it in suffers covers this in my mind. Last man who played it was the defender - would be surely 'more wrong' to punsih the attacker.