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KML1
02-03-08, 00:03
Hope that doesnt cause any blocked firewalls!

Anyway, what is the collective view on the hooker starting with the ball behind his head at lineout time?

The direction from on high is that when the ball is "cocked" (i.e. alll the way behind his head) it should come in by a count of 3. But that is when the ball starts in front or, not cocked. So, what if the ball is always "cocked".

Does it cause a problem? Does it cause early lifting? If there's a problem, how do you solve it?

Views?

OB..
02-03-08, 00:03
KML1 - at your level, when the ball is cocked, the players go into some complicated dance routines, which take time. Having the ball cocked means the thrower is not giving away when he will throw, but is not dummying either. In a technical sense he is not wasting time, although I don't personally like it very much. Since the law does not specify how long a "delay" is, you can use your judgement, which means following the guidelines. I don't see it as a big problem, since the players know what they are doing.

Down in the sub-soil things are much simpler. If the ball is cocked for more than second or two, and there is any sort of attempt at line-dancing, various lineout offences will start to occur. Closing the gap is a favourite. You manage it by stopping play and telling the thrower to get the ball in quicker.

didds
02-03-08, 22:03
Having the ball cocked means the thrower is not giving away when he will throw, but is not dummying either. In a technical sense he is not wasting time, although I don't personally like it very much.

coaching point: OB has it in spades. The ball at front --> ball behind head --> throw gives away the throw albeit momentarily.

Ball behind head from start removes the obvious "trigger" to the oppostion. I feel it is sensible play, that is in no way dishonest and illegal. I would further suggest the law is pretty much intended to overcome potential "dummying" with a historical method of front-rear-throw in mind.

didds

Mat 04
02-03-08, 23:03
Ive had this discussion with many teams about early jumping and cocking and starting the throw in with ball behind head. I usually remind both teams (with a grin) that they are not entitled to jump until the ball has left the throwing players hands, regardless of whether its cocked or not. Usually hear no more about it..

Mike Whittaker
03-03-08, 10:03
Saw a level 7 ref earlier this season who adopted a rigorous approach to the line out in terms of gap, delay and early jump. After 10 minutes, one reset with clear instructions to both thrower and jumpers, and then 2 penalties he didn't have to say another word all game, just point occasionally to the gap and then look at the thrower briefly. Can't guarantee it will work for all but it did for him and I rightly commended him on his approach.

Dickie E
03-03-08, 10:03
Saw a level 7 ref earlier this season who adopted a rigorous approach to the line out in terms of gap, delay and early jump. After 10 minutes, one reset with clear instructions to both thrower and jumpers, and then 2 penalties he didn't have to say another word all game, just point occasionally to the gap and then look at the thrower briefly. Can't guarantee it will work for all but it did for him and I rightly commended him on his approach.

Mike, do you mean penalties or the player/s was/were penalised with a FK?

Mike Whittaker
03-03-08, 11:03
Mike, do you mean penalties or the player/s was/were penalised with a FK?

As I recall, there was a FK for early jump and as it happens a penalty when a player responded in a less than positive sense to a request regarding the gap :)