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Wert Twacky
15-09-05, 11:09
Apparantly, David Rose (Premiership referee that, quite remarkably has never been a member of the Gloucestershire Referee's Soc!) posted an apology on the Bath Rugby fans website www.bathrugbyere.co.uk after ruling out a try for an offside infringment that, after viewing the match DVD, never was.
Now I didn't see the match so can't comment on Mr Rose's error, but what do people think about top refs saying sorry for errors, especially in the national press? (It was picked up by a regional daily paper) :confused:

Bryan
15-09-05, 12:09
From the NAWIRA Newsletter yesterday:

Quote of the Week
From Brian Moore, noted player, critic and journalist, in the Daily Telegraph, 13th September, on how to react to poor refereeing decisions, and on mistakes:
“…I remain firmly of the belief that an apology (from the referee) is the most effective way of deflecting the inevitable invective that follows a bad decision; everyone makes mistakes, and referees make far fewer than players and managers.”

-Bryan

madref
15-09-05, 12:09
Hello

Don't think there is anything wrong with saying Sorry thinks it gains you respect, I am sure Bristol will have scored a few trys when they have been off side.

As a player you need to take the rough with the smooth and over a season it will even out as long as refs stay consistent.

David

PS - It is a shame when a ref makes a really good judgement call or has a good game it is just expected with no praise. If a team has a top game the score tells the story and the team are hailed as heros!

jboulet4648
15-09-05, 13:09
I think it is a class act. To be human is to err.....to acknowledge this is divine....

Bryan
15-09-05, 14:09
PS - It is a shame when a ref makes a really good judgement call or has a good game it is just expected with no praise. If a team has a top game the score tells the story and the team are hailed as heros!

Welcome to the world of refereeing. It is not a shame. It is often a "thankless" job in so far as nobody really cares if you do a good job per say, but they lambaste you if you've had a Shy-ter. Very few of us pay lots of money to watch referees in international matches. Players are there to entertain, not referees, though being miked up to Tony Spreadbury would be pretty fun!

I also think we do get "praised". This normally comes in the form of promotions to higher levels, opportunity for exchanges, etc. Players do shake our hands after matches, and as long as we enjoy ourselves, then who cares what the papers say?

Unless of course the Paper is "Assessment notes from Ed Morrison"...

-Bryan

didds
15-09-05, 16:09
... and there was me thinking you all did it to ensure 30 players get a good afternoon out!!!

didds

jboulet4648
15-09-05, 16:09
My biggest mistake ever was reffing a high level game for an evaluation....game turned into a nightmare....after that match I reffed for the players and myself all to have fun, and have been a better referee each match since!

Mike Whittaker
15-09-05, 19:09
I am a little concerned that openly apologising for a specific mistake after a game sets a precedent. Is it to be expected that he will make an apology for every wrong decision, or indeed decision missed, after each game? Why apologise for any one mistake rather than another?

There are of course the mistakes made during the course of the match for which a 'sorry gentlemen, my mistake' are quite acceptable e.g. awarding a mark outside the 22. ( I only did it once... honest).

Would strongly suggest that developing referees do not take Mr Rose's example as a model. The more usual, "As I saw it at the time........" and "But then none of us is infallible....." to deflect the issue, is more sensible.

Simon Griffiths
15-09-05, 20:09
being miked up to Tony Spreadbury would be pretty fun!

Fun is not the word I'd use! :eek: When he refereed the Gloucester v Northampton Powergen Cup Final a couple of years ago we had a RefLink handed to us at half-time (something for the fans in the stands to listen to the referee with - can't make any input though!). We soon learnt why it had been passed on, and handed it on again within ten minutes. Painful is the adjective I'd use! His cackling left us with rather aching ears. Not the most pleasant experience. Some of his comments are great, but the incessant cackling can be a bit much through an ear-piece (not so bad via the TV as it's a 'softer' noise).

As for David's actions, when he did it on a Gloucester message board (which I frequent) he was well received and the vast majority of fans were thankful for his input and the way he'd explained certain decisions. He'd taken a bit of a barracking from the Shed in that match but well and truly secured a place in the Gloucester faithful's good books for the effort he took. As far as apologising for a wrong decision, I don't think it's right - on a pitch to the players definitely do it, but off the pitch, no, just help the fans understand the Laws and/or why a mistake was made.

OB..
15-09-05, 21:09
I certainly agree that openly admitting to a clear error can be a Good Thing, and so can explaining a contentious decision, but ...

On the Bath message board there is a thread entitled "not David Rose" quoting a report in the Times:
"David Rose, the referee in Bath’s league defeat by Northampton last weekend, has denied he sent an e-mail to a fans’ website apologising for ruling out a try by Andy Beattie, the Bath back-row forward."

Mike Whittaker
15-09-05, 23:09
So now we have the possibility of it being reported that David Rose refused to apologise or getting it wrong or that he never said he was wrong in the first place..

Fun for the media and the referee can never win.....

Deeps
16-09-05, 00:09
To be human is to err.....to acknowledge this is divine....

I once worked for a well respected USN Rear Admiral. On his desk was a brass plaque that read 'To err is human, to forgive devine [sic]. Neither of these is the policy of this Command.'

Wert Twacky
16-09-05, 16:09
Quote: Simon Griffiths ref Tony Spreadbury
His cackling left us with rather aching ears. Not the most pleasant experience. Some of his comments are great, but the incessant cackling can be a bit much through an ear-piece (not so bad via the TV as it's a 'softer' noise).


He's not every one's cup of tea, but then when we all have charachteristics that add value to our games and must highlight our strenghths, while developing our weaknesses. Mr Spreaders can get away with this as he's comfortable with his style of management, but as you mentioned the game was a few years ago, you may have noticed he's not as chattery as he once was - and this is a deliberate action on his part.

Ashley Rowden does not quite fit the norm "mould", but he gets the job done.

By the way - have either of these two been members of Glouc Soc?????

Wouldn't it be boring if we were all the same?????????????

Mike Whittaker
16-09-05, 18:09
Mr Spreaders .... you may have noticed he's not as chattery as he once was - and this is a deliberate action on his part.



Glad this is a deliberate act and nothing to do with the ever increasing speed of the game and the necessity to breath occasionally.... :)

Mat 04
16-09-05, 22:09
I absolutely hate Brian Moore, his voice makes me want to rip my own ears off and his constant slagging off of referees decisions makes me want to give him the old boot up the backside treatment.

Mike Whittaker
16-09-05, 23:09
Why is it that the commentators in the Southern Hemisphere are so much better at understanding what the referee is trying to do.... and in empathising with his efforts to achieve what he wants? Perhaps they just understand the game better... and have more respect?

ExHookah
16-09-05, 23:09
Why is it that the commentators in the Southern Hemisphere are so much better at understanding what the referee is trying to do.... and in empathising with his efforts to achieve what he wants? Perhaps they just understand the game better... and have more respect?


Well, aside from Crowley referring to the referee as a "total boofhead" of course!

OB..
17-09-05, 11:09
I can do nothing about Brian's Moores voice for you, but I will disagree about his attitude towards referees.

Following various exchanges on another message board, I actually had a short email correspondence with him in which he asked several sensible questions. I have also heard him express cautious views and even come back later to corrrect something he had said earlier.

He certainly believes in saying what he thinks, but he is amenable to counter-argument, unlike others I could mention. YMMV

didds
17-09-05, 20:09
mind you Eddie Butler could do us all a favour and give up to run a chip shop in Portcawl.

even with reflink thingies and hand signals etc he still gets refs calls wrong!!! Sucj a twat!

didds

didds
17-09-05, 20:09
you have to be joking?

aussie commentators are worse than Moore ... OOOOOOVVEEEEERRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR RRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR

blah!

didds

Simon Griffiths
17-09-05, 20:09
mind you Eddie Butler could do us all a favour and give up to run a chip shop in Portcawl.

even with reflink thingies and hand signals etc he still gets refs calls wrong!!! Sucj a twat!

didds

I'll never forget in Brian Moore's "Pitbull's Punch-Ups" when he utters perhaps the most truthful line in the history of the English language:

"The esteemed Eddie Butler, talking b*llocks as usual!"

I have a lot of respect for Brian Moore, yes he speaks his mind, and the number of times he labels a ref's decision as "pathetic" can be annoying, but at least as OB says he has a genuine interest in finding out about how referees read/referee the game. Plus, he will admit he's wrong.

With regards to NZ commentators' comments on refs, I often feel that they empathise more, but are just as likely to lambast a ref for his performance (i.e. Allain Rollands fairly good display was quickly shot down due to the quality on display the previous week from Spreadders) - I do feel they can compliment referees as they rarely have an opportunity to do it with their own! ;)