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SF_Rugger
28-03-08, 17:03
Watching the Brumbies play the Cheetahs this week and i saw Steve Walsh YC a player for dissent (foul language) and admonish the captain several times for the same offense.

I agree with what Mr. Walsh did and hope to see it more.

Thoughts of everyone?

Dixie
28-03-08, 18:03
Absolutely!

Soccer in the UK is wringing its hands about a general lack of respect for officials in the top flight, which inevitably filters down to the lower levels. Rugby is being held up as the paragon.

Having occupied the high ground for so long, rugby's global leadership is keen not to let it slip. Long may that continue.

dave_clark
28-03-08, 18:03
agree, at times. i gave one earlier this season for this, level 15 match, vets team (actually a 5th team full of old gits rather than proper vets) at my home club. blue #10 says 'can i ask you a question sir', my response was 'through your captain please'. response along the lines of 'through the captain? what sort of game is this?'. i penalised. he continued to rant, so i called him and his captain over and told him to stop. walking away, he continued to rant about 'f*#$ing stupid, what sort of f*#$ing game is this anyway'. called him back and showed the card, for arguing plus foul language directed towards me.

5 minutes after coming back on, he disagreed with a hands in ruck decision i gave against blue 14 ('but i was on my feet sir'). next breakdown, from #10, i heard 'Paul, will you send the referee a postcard to ask him what that penalty was for?'. penalty given for sarcastic comments made towards me (possible overkill, but i'd had enough - roped in from the touchli). whites kicked the penalty to go 3-0 up.

not a peep from him all game, and no further problems from anyone until white captain got a bit argumentative 5 mins from time. penalty against him sorted him out. good report cards came back. happy days.

to clarify - when i say 'at times', i don't mean in good natured games when a knock on is followed by 'you stupid bugger' from the guy who committed it. aimed at the ref, of course, is different.

Deeps
29-03-08, 02:03
You have to note the difference when a player is just venting his frustration at his own or others shortcomings as compared with dissent through abuse. I try and head it off early with 'language please gentlemen' or 'there are ladies present; some on and some off the field' to more direct 'can we cut out the language please guys; we don't need it in our game'. Eventually I will get more formal, skippers chat and escalate as necessary but it is not usually necessary.

While I was standing by a wounded Vet last season, in between gasps of pain he wheezed his support for my stance on bad language with the remark 'We don't need soccer behaviour here do we'.

Rawling
30-03-08, 00:03
How about if a player (captain) swears about the ref, but to his team rather than to the ref himself?

How about if it's a C?

I had the misfortune of hearing this when touch judging. Ref had just given a penalty against so the team were in ingoal right next to me.
Sadly I'm not qualified to do anything about it...

OB..
30-03-08, 13:03
How about if a player (captain) swears about the ref, but to his team rather than to the ref himself?
Referee: "Penalty for swearing."
Player: "But ref, I was swearing at myself!"
Referee: When I am refereeing, NOBODY is allowed to speak to you like that."

Simon Thomas
30-03-08, 13:03
RFU issued a directive a couple of seasons ago (Francis Baron himself) that was (and maybe still is) on www.rfu.com that foul and abusive language should be punished by match officials with appropriate sanctioned - whether it be aimed at his own players, opposition, ref, spectator, or The Almighty.

Dixie
30-03-08, 20:03
How about if a player (captain) swears about the ref, but to his team rather than to the ref himself?
This is still a PK. Imagine if, instead of swearing, the player had shouted: "OK guys, we're playing 16 men here, let's up the tempo and the commitment!"

Abuse is abuse, no matter to whom it is directed. If it was the captain, that makes it much worse IMO, and I'd hope that a disciplinary committee would view it as an aggravating factor in determining the punishment.

Greg Collins
31-03-08, 10:03
How about if a player (captain) swears about the ref, but to his team rather than to the ref himself?

How about if it's a C?

Commenting out loud about the ref in a -ve way is dissent surely? Add industrial language to the mix and all sorts of boundaries just got stepped over. But as a referee you have to "choose" whether or not you hear everything on the pitch.

C word - depends on the word! If it is "The ref is crap" I'll either choose not to hear it and let it go or manage it with a quiet word at the next breakdown. "The ref is a c*nt" is no different to me than "The ref is a f*cking clown", just another expletive which you need to manage by telling them to tone it down. The five letter one, "this ref is a ch**t" if I hear it, and it is loud enough for others to hear, is probably a short cut to a RC.

Emmet Murphy
31-03-08, 14:03
"The ref is a c*nt" is no different to me than "The ref is a f*cking clown", just another expletive which you need to manage by telling them to tone it down. That's a red card for me (unless it was obviously said in a joking sort of way)

BigDai
10-04-08, 11:04
At U13 last week the scrum half, admonished himself for a poor pass with a "F8ck". A quiet word prevented a third expletive.

Dickie E
10-04-08, 11:04
That's a red card for me (unless it was obviously said in a joking sort of way)

Like:

"Ref, If I said I think you are a c**t, would you send me off?"

"Yes"

"Then I won't say it" :chin:

Wert Twacky
10-04-08, 12:04
At a Div One match this season, the ref (early in the game) penalised a defending prop for going off his feet at a ruck.
The prop, while still off his feet by a pile of bodies, said words to the effect of "I was on my f**king feet you prick". He didn't shout it out, but the referee heard it and duely awarded a penalty against him.

The ref handled this excellently IMHO as he blew quickly, called the prop and captain over and said to the skipper in very controlled, non-confrontational, but forcefull, way (while pointing at the prop) - "this player needs to be VERY careful with his choice of words towards me on this pitch. Do I make myself clear?"

Although a tough match, he didn't appear to any more dissent issues in the game. :clap:

Phil E
10-04-08, 12:04
"The ref is a f*cking clown" <snip> is probably a short cut to a RC.

Of course, if this is the referee, then he might be justified in saying it :bday:


388

Dickie E
10-04-08, 13:04
Phil, where do you get this stuff?

I reckon you should be Grade 12 based solely on your photos :D

tim White
10-04-08, 13:04
I want a pair of trousers like this. excellent at lineouts.

Gareth-Lee Smith
10-04-08, 13:04
I failed to manage a junior game in terms of expletives. Not from the kids, from the touchline.

"For ****'s sake, he was offside!"

Next stoppage is an injury and the bloke comes on to tend to the injured player and before I get chance, he intervenes: "What about the offsides, ref?". I tell him that I'll referee the game but I don't want him to be (my words..) "Effing and ****ing blinding at me".

Oops.

tim White
10-04-08, 13:04
But you weren't shouting across the pitch for the whole world to hear. I'll let you away with this one, just once mind;)

ExHookah
10-04-08, 15:04
This is still a PK. Imagine if, instead of swearing, the player had shouted: "OK guys, we're playing 16 men here, let's up the tempo and the commitment!"

Abuse is abuse, no matter to whom it is directed. If it was the captain, that makes it much worse IMO, and I'd hope that a disciplinary committee would view it as an aggravating factor in determining the punishment.


Had that last season, went straight to the pocket.

Any reference to "playing 16 men" is an accusation that you are cheating and favoring the opposition.

(unless you are the Samoan captain vs England in 2003)

Emmet Murphy
10-04-08, 19:04
Agree 100% there Hookah - YC (at least) for that. I had it last season as well - I had to fight the urge to tell the player not to flatter himself!!

Toby Warren
11-04-08, 10:04
Like:

"Ref, If I said I think you are a c**t, would you send me off?"

"Yes"

"Then I won't say it" :chin:

I've always liked;
'sir can you send me off for what I'm thinking?'

'no'

'Well I think that you are a c*nt then'

Gareth-Lee Smith
11-04-08, 12:04
Clever, but unlikely to keep you on the pitch.

Simon Thomas
11-04-08, 13:04
Same reaction from me - Red Card for abuse.

Toby Warren
11-04-08, 13:04
Why is that a red card :wink: (and Robbie can't you find a sarcastic icon!)

Davet
11-04-08, 18:04
Why is that a red card


Because you're not allowed to hurt them.

David J.
11-04-08, 18:04
Because there's no Orange Card. ;)

tim White
11-04-08, 19:04
I've always liked;
'sir can you send me off for what I'm thinking?'

'no'

'Well I think that you are a c*nt then'

Well my assessor thinks you are talking to him over the radio mike, and he thinks I should show you one of the cards in my pocket. Now in all this excitement I can't remember for certain which colour is in which pocket. Do you feel lucky PUNK?, well, DO YA? (flash one of the two red cards I carry for such circumstances)

ex-lucy
13-04-08, 17:04
red 6 from a scrum "for ****s sake ref, get out the ****ing way"

i gave out a YC.
Skipper made 6 apologise, he then replaced him and then made him buy me a pint.

Davet
14-04-08, 14:04
And, hopefully, adjusted your positional play for the rest of the game.

I remember a senior (now in Cornwall) ref when I started reffing telling players that, if he was in the way, "you've got shoulders, haven't you? Why not use them?"