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ex-lucy
08-04-08, 18:04
knock on by attacking team on defending team's 22m..

Ref blows whistle and awards scrum to defending team on their 22m.

attacking no8 questions decision.

Ref blows whistle again and makes secondary signal of backchat and walks 10m, waving no8 away and back.

Ref then awards scrum to defending team now 10m out from 22m near half way line.

Account Deleted
08-04-08, 19:04
Surely a penalty instead?

Davet
08-04-08, 21:04
Got to admire the grasp of basics. If it works for a PK and for an FK....

But perhaps the consideration should be "What is the offence? What is the sanction?"

Answer.. "Dissent and Penalty"

didds
08-04-08, 21:04
davet - spot on!

didds

Toby Warren
08-04-08, 22:04
Well at least his intention was right!

I'm sure I've made worse mistakes

Rawling
08-04-08, 23:04
So wait.
Dissent at a PK - PK 10m further forward.
Dissent at a FK or scrum - turns into a PK but not further forward?
Is a FK only marched 10 forward for failing to retire?

tim White
08-04-08, 23:04
Yep, thats about it:clap:

Mat 04
09-04-08, 00:04
perhaps while the ref was walking the 10m the captain asked for a scrum? :P

Dixie
09-04-08, 09:04
So wait.
Dissent at a PK - PK 10m further forward.
Dissent at a FK or scrum - turns into a PK but not further forward?
Is a FK only marched 10 forward for failing to retire?
There is sometimes the option of advancing a Free Kick 10m further. If you deem the disputing of your decision to be an attempt to delay the taking of the FK, then you can march it further forward under 21.8(d). In making your decision, you'd have to bear in mind whether a FK 10m forward is more advantageous (or more apt in the circumstances) than a PK at the original mark.

Rawling
09-04-08, 14:04
Actually, now I've looked it up... where does it say to advance a penalty 10m for dissent (other than dissent as a delaying tactic...)? The only paragraph I can find mentioning this is 6.A.5, and the penalty is "at the place of infringement or where play would next commence." - no mention of 10m

David J.
09-04-08, 14:04
10.4 (l) Misconduct while the ball is out if play.

SimonSmith
09-04-08, 14:04
Probably 21.7

Phil E
09-04-08, 14:04
10.4 (k) covers most things.

SimonSmith
09-04-08, 15:04
Except why the PK is advanced 10m

Law 21 is explicit about dissent advancing the PK the 10m, but does at least have the concept in play

Phil E
09-04-08, 15:04
Except why the PK is advanced 10m

Law 21 is explicit about dissent advancing the PK the 10m

The word dissent is not mentioned in law 21 at all. In fact the word dissent is not mentioned in any law, only in the refeees signals chapter.

The nearest description you will get to dissent is 10.4k for which a penalty is given. If you have already given a penalty when the dissent occurs then you can give a second penalty 10m in advance of the first. This, as you say, is covered in 21.7

Incidently law 21.8 gives specific examples of when a free kick can be advanced 10m.


Penalty: Any infringement by the opposing team results in a
second free kick, awarded 10 metres in front of the mark for the
first kick. This mark must not be within 5 metres of the goal line.
Any player may take the kick. If the referee awards a second free
kick, the second free kick is not taken before the referee has made
the mark indicating the place of the free kick.

Dixie, the way I read it this penalty quote covers all the infringements under 21.8, not just 21.8h, since no penalty is listed under 21.8 a-g

PaulDG
09-04-08, 16:04
Actually, now I've looked it up... where does it say to advance a penalty 10m for dissent (other than dissent as a delaying tactic...)? The only paragraph I can find mentioning this is 6.A.5, and the penalty is "at the place of infringement or where play would next commence." - no mention of 10m

10.4 (l)

David J.
09-04-08, 16:04
10.4 (l) Misconduct while the ball is out if play.

"If a penalty kick is awarded but the offending team is guilty of
further misconduct before the kick is taken, the referee cautions or
orders off the guilty player and advances the mark for the penalty
kick 10 metres. This covers both the original offence and the
misconduct. "

Interestingly, the same provision that allows us to march the mark 10m also requires a yellow card.

cymrubach
09-04-08, 16:04
DaveJ

For caution read b@llocking, sending off is yellow or if warranted red card....

escalate up.

Phil E
09-04-08, 17:04
DaveJ
For caution read b@llocking, sending off is yellow or if warranted red card....
escalate up.

er..........thats not what the law says? :=

10.5 SANCTIONS
(a) Any player who infringes any part of the Foul Play law must be
admonished, or cautioned and temporarily suspended, or sent-off.
(b) A player who has been cautioned and temporarily suspended who
then commits a second cautionable offence within the Foul Play
law must be
sent-off.

SimonSmith
09-04-08, 17:04
Sorry Phil, I missed the n't from my original post.

Phil E
09-04-08, 17:04
Sorry Phil, I missed the n't from my original post.

It was your accent that confused me. :biggrin:

David J.
09-04-08, 17:04
DaveJ

For caution read b@llocking, sending off is yellow or if warranted red card....

escalate up.

For b@llocking I thought "admonished" covered that. Almost everywhere I read cautioned it is in the context of "cautioned and temporarily suspended" and "sent off" is a red card.

Who here, when advancing a penalty for dissent, has issued a Yellow?

SimonSmith
09-04-08, 18:04
Not as a one off.
If it's been part of a pattern, then yes.

Davet
10-04-08, 18:04
For b@llocking I thought "admonished" covered that. Almost everywhere I read cautioned it is in the context of "cautioned and temporarily suspended" and "sent off" is a red card.

Who here, when advancing a penalty for dissent, has issued a Yellow?

Use law 23.

ex-lucy
11-04-08, 10:04
LAW 6.A.5 PLAYERS DISPUTING A REFEREE'S DECISION

All players must respect the authority of the referee. They must not dispute the referee's decisions. They must stop playing at once when the referee blows the whistle except at a kick off.

Penalty: Penalty Kick at the place of infringement or where play would next commence.

Phil E
11-04-08, 10:04
Good Call :=

Blue_wolf75
18-04-08, 14:04
The nearest description you will get to dissent is 10.4k for which a penalty is given.
Dissent is covered under Law 6.A.5 "Players disputing a Referee's Decision" Penalty kick awarded etc etc. Thus in the case here, the scrum should have been made into a penalty but not moved. In the case where play has stopped for a penalty and dissent occurs the player is in breach of both 6.A.5 & 10.4(l) and thus the march back 10m is covered in red and white by the law book.