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ctrainor
22-08-08, 11:08
A. Sacking the Line out Jumper as he returns to ground by one defender has long been accepted (though I canít actually find a definition in the laws)
I assume this is still the case despite the ELVís therefore 2 defenders canít drag the players down.

B. When a Maul has formed from a lineout but has not moved from the line of touch such that all participating bound players are not past the line of touch this is still classed as part of the line out as I see it so can it be pulled down?

Dixie
22-08-08, 12:08
A. Sacking the jumper as he returns to ground is known as a tackle - and there's no reason why two tacklers should not take down one attacker. The ELVs make this less risky; last season, if the jumper had supporters bound and a defender engaged him, a maul formed, and pulling that down was illegal. Now, both tackling the jumper and pulling down a rapidly-formed maul are legal - so perhaps we'll see more of this (except at U.16 to U.19, where the law will be the same as it was last season).

B. The maul is a maul, notwithstanding that it forms within the lineout. It can thus be pulled down

Davet
22-08-08, 13:08
What Dixie says.

OB..
22-08-08, 13:08
A. Sacking the Line out Jumper as he returns to ground by one defender has long been accepted (though I canít actually find a definition in the laws)
It is covered by Rulings 3 and 8 of 2003.


I assume this is still the case despite the ELVís therefore 2 defenders canít drag the players down.
Agree. No change as far as I can see.


B. When a Maul has formed from a lineout but has not moved from the line of touch such that all participating bound players are not past the line of touch this is still classed as part of the line out as I see it so can it be pulled down?
Agree with Dixie.

ddjamo
22-08-08, 13:08
regarding b: do you refer to that as a "maul at lineout" since techincally the lineout is not over? had a ref coach correct my calling it a "maul" when he said in fact that the lineout was not over. just wondering what you call it on the other sideof the pond...

Simon Thomas
22-08-08, 14:08
It is a maul but you ned to have your 10m signal still in place as the ball has not left the line of touch, and now you are looking for rearmost foot of maul to clear the line of touch.

OB..
22-08-08, 14:08
Law 19.16 is entitled "Offside at rucks and mauls in the lineout". Therefore two phases can be concurrent.

Dixie
22-08-08, 14:08
Just to digress slightly from the main thread, a lineout ends when the ball moves beyond either the 5m or 15m lines. If a maul is taking place in the lineout (and Ddjamo, I call it a maul, while adopting ST's recommendation of keeping a hand up to signal to the backs that the lineout is still in force as well), and the ball is not visible, how do people assess whether the lineout has ended by virtue of the ball crossing one of these lines? it must be guesswork, but do you go by the centre line of the maul, an edge, or what?

Simon Thomas
22-08-08, 14:08
You should be aware of where the ball is in any case (if I can't spot it or I am not sure where it is, I usually ask the attacking scrum half), so wait for it to cross 5m or 15m line or back foot of maul crossed line of touch, whichever is first.

ddjamo
22-08-08, 21:08
yes - the hand up is effective...

KML1
22-08-08, 23:08
DDjamo - if that is all an assessor had to say to you, Id look quizically and accept and move on with a wry grin! Happy days.

Some people....

ddjamo
22-08-08, 23:08
DDjamo - if that is all an assessor had to say to you, Id look quizically and accept and move on with a wry grin! Happy days.

Some people....

yea...no joking there my friend....but in fact he had about 4 pages of notes for me! he corrected me in calling it a maul and said it was a "maul at line out" because the line out had not ended - that describes it correctly....