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didds
21-10-05, 19:10
looking through the law rulings (thanks OB for the URL) my interest was piqued by the kicking at goal query.

I can follow the arguments logically and they are fair enough - but it rather leaves the question hanging in the air "when is a PK at goal not a PK at goal".

In the scenario questioned in the law rulings the act was a PK at goal signalled, defenders collect near the goal and the kicker then chips a short kick for another attacker to gather and "score" a try unhindered. The law ruling was that this is illegal because the kick must be a genuine attempt to kick at goal etc - penalty, a scrum at the point of kick.

BUT - what if the kicker slipped in his kicking stride and the kick was thus then " a genuine attempt" to kick at goal - but had the same outcome? what if the kick went 10m? Or 20? Or 30?

what if the kick was so bad it sailed right across the face of the goal, landed in-goal near the Touch-In-Goal - and a winger dotted it down for a "try"?

In short then - when does a legit kick at goal become an illegal use of a PK?
Frankly the law ruling given doesn't seem to help anybody.


didds

Deeps
21-10-05, 20:10
This is where the referee's judgement of fair play comes in. Was the slip genuine, the kick really that dreadful or is someone pulling my chain!

Simon Griffiths
21-10-05, 20:10
A very interesting point really - and one that could lead to hours of debate in the bar post-match.

As far as the solution goes, Deeps is spot on, we (as referees) have to use our heads to decide whether it was intentional or not. As far as the ruling goes, I agree that it leaves the situation still in limbo as the action on the pitch is always debatable.

OB..
22-10-05, 00:10
I won't be having sleepless nights over this. I can't ever remember it happening. Can anyone else?

Deeps
22-10-05, 09:10
I recall a Navy Cup game for which I was running touch where the kicker tee'd up to the left of the posts about 35 metres out to deposit the ball near the right hand touchline at 5 and 5 where his #14 caught it and nipped in for the try which was awarded. Lots of head scratching in the changing room later.

Robert Burns
22-10-05, 12:10
On a different note,

What if the penalty is on the 5m from touch, the kicker gives himself a very narrow angle to kick, it goes near the goal but their contingency is that he doesn't kick it hard, so if he does miss, the winger can get it and put it down.

Would this be accepted even though the wingers actions are pre-planned?

didds
23-10-05, 14:10
I guess the question there robert is how would you know if it was pre-planned?

didds

Robert Burns
23-10-05, 14:10
exactly, they may be going for the penalty, and have pre-planned a scenario if he misses, so is that allowed?

Would you allow it?

OB..
23-10-05, 23:10
Of course they can prepare a plan in case he misses. That is quite different from planning to miss.

If he is kicking from a silly angle, you might be justified in thinking he has no intention of getting the penalty, but you will have to judge on the facts of the case.

Robert Burns
23-10-05, 23:10
I would suppose it would be if he got the first one and missed the second you'd probably be ok, if it were the other way around, hmmm.