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View Full Version : Another fine performance by Mr.Dickson



Mat 04
11-11-05, 22:11
....asshole


Spear tackle??? it was one movement and the Fijian even made sure he landed safely - and IM WELSH.

If rob dickson hadn't had his TJ's today he would of looked a plain FOOL. I think he should be booted off the B Panel and put on the Auxiliary Panel.... thoughts anyone?

Mat 04
11-11-05, 22:11
I did like his wrist lanyard with a strap tho....anyone know where i can get one??? lol :)

Robert Burns
11-11-05, 22:11
I only saw the Newcastle v Irish game.

Shaun Davey had an excellent game!

Try also please Matt to be a bit more creative in your posts, There are other words in the English (and I'm sure Welsh) Language. ;)

Robert Burns
11-11-05, 22:11
According to my sheet the referee for the wales Fiji game should have been L Bray (NZRFU) with C Joubert and W Barnes as Touch Judges?

Mat 04
11-11-05, 23:11
Im sure I heared Waynes name, but the ref was definatley Dickson.

Mat 04
11-11-05, 23:11
anyhow, please help lol, I want one of them lanyards! :D

Simon Griffiths
11-11-05, 23:11
Welcome to my first eBay post on these forums:


I have a wonderful stretchy wrist lanyard for whistles - perfect for rugby referees, such as ones refereeing Wales v Fiji matches.

I'll start the bidding at 5

OB..
12-11-05, 00:11
According to Planet-Rugby, the original appointment was Lyndon Bray, with Rob Dickson and Wayne Barnes as TJs, but Dickson actually refereed, so presumably Lyndon Bray went missing for some reason.

Mat 04
12-11-05, 01:11
5.00?!?!?!?!?!?! u crazy Simon? :P

ex-lucy
12-11-05, 10:11
I only saw the Newcastle v Irish game.

Shaun Davey had an excellent game!

me too. I thought he had a good game too. picked up a few things.
i havnt seen him before. Where has he been ?

Robert Burns
12-11-05, 13:11
He's one of our London Refs.

I hadn't seen him on the telly before though.

Rugbyint
12-11-05, 19:11
According to my sheet the referee for the wales Fiji game should have been L Bray (NZRFU) with C Joubert and W Barnes as Touch Judges?

Bray was out because of a lower leg injury according to the Rugby Referees NZ site. http://www.rugbyreferee.co.nz/
It's at the end of the article about S. Walsh.

Ricampbell
13-11-05, 14:11
another attack by our Welsh colleague on Dickinson what a constructive referee he must be. i agree it wasn't a spear and that it was a harsh and probably an incorrect call, but whats the point in calling the guy an asshole??? Howveer did anyone see the NZ tackle by Nonu on Darcy? That was dangerous, will he be cited??

Simon Griffiths
13-11-05, 16:11
Nonu's tackle could be considered dangerous, but certainly didn't warrant any action other than the PK awarded by the referee. I think everyone's gone a little overboard since the Umaga/Mealamu incident (probably fuelled by the media). Nonu, lowered him down and certainly didn't drive into him on the floor - yes, slightly mis-judged, PK, but nothing more. Next thing we know, we'll be banning tackles for simply being too hard!

Mat 04
13-11-05, 17:11
Nonu's tackle could be considered dangerous, but certainly didn't warrant any action other than the PK awarded by the referee. I think everyone's gone a little overboard since the Umaga/Mealamu incident (probably fuelled by the media). Nonu, lowered him down and certainly didn't drive into him on the floor - yes, slightly mis-judged, PK, but nothing more. Next thing we know, we'll be banning tackles for simply being too hard!

Amen to that Simon

Mike Whittaker
13-11-05, 18:11
Nonu's tackle was clearly more of the Body Slam variety than a Pile Driver. Certainly very uncomfortable and in the circumstance a penalty was appropriate. But was it more dangerous than for example running head on at Nonu and getting his shoulder in your midriff? Certainly Darcy got up quicker than others who have been on the receiving end of other 'acceptable' tackles..

At present 'dangerous' is very much at the discretion of the ref, so let us hope it doesn't become too prescriptive or problems will arise faster than they are solved...

ex-lucy
13-11-05, 19:11
my personal thoughts are ... this type of tackle is as dangerous as a high tackle ... e.g. if it is premeditated and delivered with serious intent then it can inflict serious damage and should carry the maximum sanction .... but if it is a case of a slip by tackler/ tackled player and reactionary type tackle ... then minimum sanction ... i.e. it is up to the discretion of referee ... but lets not over react .. .either way...

Jacko
14-11-05, 00:11
I agree entirely with Mike. Penalty and no more. I read the papers before watching the match which I'd videoed and was expecting a horror show. I nearly missed it when I actually watched it tonight. Would anyone have batted an eyelid had it not been for the proper spear tackel on BOD? That is what needs to be stamped out - not just hits that take people off the deck.

Bryan
14-11-05, 08:11
I have a wonderful stretchy wrist lanyard for whistles - perfect for rugby referees, such as ones refereeing Wales v Fiji matches.

I'll start the bidding at 5

Or you can do what I did and call up JusCosSports and have them send you a couple for 2 each. P&P will be no more than 1 in the UK. Got a pair the other day. The link is here (http://www.juscossports.com/currentRefereeProducts.php?pageNum_rsOfficialsProd ucts=1&totalRows_rsOfficialsProducts=7).

-Bryan

Account Deleted
14-11-05, 12:11
another attack by our Welsh colleague on Dickinson what a constructive referee he must be. i agree it wasn't a spear and that it was a harsh and probably an incorrect call, but whats the point in calling the guy an asshole??? Howveer did anyone see the NZ tackle by Nonu on Darcy? That was dangerous, will he be cited??

It was a different "Welsh collegue" who started the debate on Mr Dickson before. So please check and use you observation skills before posting. While I have great problems with this particular referee I would never use such a term.

I will reserve judgement on the game as the ref has been named.

It is interesting that people who get Mr D a lot seem to have issues with him though.

Mike Whittaker
14-11-05, 13:11
I will reserve judgement on the game as the ref has been named.



Nothing wrong with honest objective and constructive comment, such as you would wish for, demonstrating your powers of observation... :)

Simon Griffiths
14-11-05, 18:11
For crying out loud! This is taking the p*ss (no offence to anyone), but what are the Irish Rugby Union doing!? :mad: :


From Planet-Rugby New Zealand centre Ma'a Nonu has been cited by the Irish Rugby Union for a tackle on his opposite number Gordon D'Arcy during Saturday's test in Dublin.
They should get off their high-horse, it was one bad, perhaps pre-meditated attack and we shall never, ever hear the end of it. I'll be sick to death of it when they're still bloody whinging about it when I'm 90.

Davet
15-11-05, 13:11
It was dealt with adequately at the time by the referee - It was a dangerous tackle, but did not seem to be pre-meditated nor with an intent to injure. I suspect that political point scoring is the order of the day and with any luck the charge will be dismissed out of hand and the IRU told to get real. The upending of O'Driscoll was a disgrace, but this was not anywhere near that league.

Jacko
15-11-05, 14:11
IRU to get real? - I don't think they asked for him to be cited. They said at the time they had more important things to worry about (like the fact that they were dreadful). The citing commisioner doesn't have to receive a complaint from a team to cite.

Mat 04
15-11-05, 14:11
does anyone know where I can actually see the O'Driscoll tackle. I listened to that test onm the radio...

robertti
16-11-05, 14:11
Although I only saw the tackle on Darcy in the live game (I haven't watched a replay yet), it seemed to me that the tackle was dangerous enough. Okay it wasn't premeditated but Nonu certainly lifted Darcy passed the horizontal. And Darcy's head was aiming towards the ground, if he hadn't stuck out his hand to break his fall, his injuries could have been far far greater. I believe Nonu does have a case to answer and it will be interesting what the disciplinary panel come up with shortly after the 'Reserved Judgement is announced.;

ex-lucy
16-11-05, 14:11
interesting article on PR about ths issue ...

this is the interesting part for me ...
"The referees were in agreement with the IRB referees manager that they should start with the Red Card and work down depending on the gravity of the tackle not start with a penalty and work up."

the article:
http://www.planetrugby.com/News/story_47441.shtml

OB..
16-11-05, 18:11
I thought Nonu's initial hit was perfect for a head-on tackle - used his arms, shoulder in front of head, bent down aiming at midriff.

The problem was that once he had grasped D'Arcy round the leg, he decided to stand up instead of driving forward. That made it dangerous, and he did not need to do it.

If you start at Red and work down, I would certainly go down at least to yellow. He did not use any obvious downward force; he held on (rather than dropping him). Having made the error, he did nothing to exacerbate the danger.

Technically that would mean no ban, since you do not get a ban for a yellow card. However in the current climate, he might get a week, just to make the point. Harsh, perhaps, but hard cases make bad law.

Jacko
17-11-05, 01:11
Good grief. It would appear that sense has prevailed and Nonu will face no further punishment. My faith in disciplinary panels is parytially restored (although it was shockingly low in the wake of White's pathetic ban. Just thought i'd have another grumble about that).

Account Deleted
17-11-05, 09:11
Just a thought not specifically related to "spears". In a line out if a player takes a jumpers legs, possibly causing the guy to land on his back head or whatever, the action is deemed dangerous.
In a tackle where the player is lifted to a height of several feet and dropped on to any part of his body should be not view the action as just as dangerous and the lineout incident or even tackling a player in the air?

The possible outcome of each action is serious injury. So what is the reason for different interpretation of the "danger" involved?

Simon Thomas
17-11-05, 09:11
All Time Ref

I agree that the taking out of a player's legs in lineout (or indeed a player supporting the jumper) is as dangerous as a tackle on a player in the air.
Immediate penalty and strong words and warning, or if repeat offence or highly dangerous /pre-meditated, I would consider a yellow card.
IMHO not as dangerous as a spear tackle where additional force as well as players own gravity is used to drive him into the ground.
Glad that common sense and very clear judgement given in Nonu case - I do wonder why he was cited in first place.

Bryan
17-11-05, 09:11
The possible outcome of each action is serious injury. So what is the reason for different interpretation of the "danger" involved?
I think you've hit the nail on the head with this one. I think there needs to be a more specific guideline to use such as Rugby League's (http://www.planet-rugby.com/Off_The_Field/Laws_And_Referees/Law_Discussions/story_47414.shtml).

The bottom of the article sums it up pretty well:


That is a degree of clarity Rugby Union could do with and is likely to get following the O'Driscoll affair in New Zealand.

Let's just say:

1. it is not illegal in rugby union football to lift a player when tackling him.
2. It is not illegal in rugby union football to drive a player back in tackling him.

If rugby union football wants to make such actions illegal, it should say so. But there is still the onus on the referee to exercise discretion and judgement of what is a dangerous tackle. It's not the getting hurt that makes it dangerous. Brett Cockbain of Wales is injured enough to be out of action for a long time and the tackle on him was pretty innocuous.

The referee in making his judgement does not have slow motion or frame by frame replay to help him decide there on the spot the sanction he should take against a dangerous tackle. Would it not be an advantage to have the spear tackle, or whatever rugby chooses to call it, clearly defined?

Seems reasonable to me...
-Bryan

Account Deleted
17-11-05, 10:11
Re the injury to Brett Cockbain, It was not the "dangerous tackle" that earned the New Zealander the warning that caused the untimate swerious injury. He walked away from that one.
The trouble with these "spear tackles" seems to me the question "did my player do it or theirs"?
Scott Gibbs in South Africa, there was one from an Irish player against NZ on Saturday as well as Nonu's, Gavin Henson in the England game lifted and bumped Tate.

It seems people only consider a tackle to be a "spear tackle" IF it is done to one of their players.

Account Deleted
17-11-05, 10:11
One point I'll make here, with regard to "judging" a ref.
At a recent Socitey meeting we have a presentation on "communication. We saw several video clips of top refs from the world of rugby and one from the world of football. We were split int ogroups to discuss what we saw and heard.
One ref was shown in several clips giving some terrible examples of communication. The were really cringeworthy.
I had occasion to hearm him reffing an very big match via the "ref mike" that you can buy. Having been unimpressed by the video clips of him I listened with interest.
He was SUPERB!
Now I guess that he either has looked at old videos of his games, listened to his assesors or he has just sat and played over calls in his mind. The result a marked improvement in the quality of his communication. We can ask for no more.

The odd bad game is to be expected. It is what we learn and change that matters. The problem is that, in some cases there appears to be no change.

Mike Whittaker
17-11-05, 19:11
Glad that common sense and very clear judgement given in Nonu case - I do wonder why he was cited in first place.

Simon, I think it was just so that in the light of the other 'tackle' this one was seen to be taken seriously and examined carefully. It also sets a precedent as to what is appropriate for management by the ref on the day, hopefully... Could be useful for other refs at that level?