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evilad
29-11-08, 17:11
Having just reffed my first game of 10's yesterday, and being reletively new to reffing. (not long off probation and not reffed for a year) I was being badgered about the scrum. With only 5 people in the scrum do they HAVE to form up as they would in 15's, or can the back 2 bind as flankers? One of the fly halves kept moaning about the binding and assured me they were binding illegally, it was in the law book as were all differences regarding 10's. He was so sure that they were in the good book, because he played international 10's. ( After 3 or 4 times of being told this, I said he could like it and play, or keep moaning and watch from the tough line. Never heard a peep form him.)
I looked in the law book , but couldnt find anything specific for 10's? was it me being a mong?

Phil E
29-11-08, 20:11
10s tournaments usualy publish their own rules (not laws). As far as I am aware there are no set laws published.

Having said that, every tournament I have reffed 10s sets the scrums with the 2nd row binding between a prop and the hooker, i.e. conventional 5 as for a 15s game.

I am a bit confused as to how they can bind as flankers with no second row? Do you mean they bound on the outside of a prop as opposed to between the prop and the hooker?

I would not have accepted that personaly.

Dixie
29-11-08, 20:11
Evilad, you weren't being a mong, as there is indeed nothing in the good book about 10's variations. However;

All players in a scrum behind the front row are required to bind onto a second row. If the second rows acted as flankers, binding onto the outside of the prop rather than the inside, they would fall foul of this requirement.

OB..
30-11-08, 13:11
We ran a 10s tournament earlier this year, and I checked with the RFU. They referred me to
http://www.community-rugby.com/communityrugby/index.cfm/Fuseaction/Home.Download_Counter/StoryId/16263/downloadid/1497/filename/RFU%20Modified%20Contact%20Rules%20140307.pdf

which includes:

TENS / TWELVES
1. Each side shall comprise 10 or 12 players selected before the start of play
2. Scrum (subject to agreement before the game commences and availability of suitably
trained players)
a) If playing 10 a side = the side throwing in the ball may elect to form the
scrummage with three or five players
b) If playing 12 a side = the side throwing in the ball may elect to from with five or
eight players

Apart from that, the laws apply ie second row must bind normally.

Simon Thomas
30-11-08, 13:11
I have reffed in and organised a number of 10s tournaments over the years and the locks must bind as locks not flankers.

Not Kurt Weaver
02-12-08, 21:12
Is there such an international 10's player? I've played an "international" 10's tourney in Cyprus, but it was far from representative rugby.

Evilad, I think you caught that bluff from the flyhalf. I would follow 15's laws for 10's unless told differently by tourney director beforehand.

ExHookah
03-12-08, 00:12
Teams frequently want to try to have a 5 man scrum with the back two as flankers, but almost all 10's tournaments will insist on a tight five.

If it's not stated we do have the ability as refs to insist on it on the basis of safety, a tight five being much more stable and safe.

Dixie
03-12-08, 08:12
If it's not stated we do have the ability as refs to insist on it on the basis of safety, a tight five being much more stable and safe.If it isn't stated as a variation from the laws of rugby, then you have stronger grounds insisting that the LoTG apply. All players except the front row have to bind on a lock.

evilad
15-12-08, 10:12
looks like i made the wrong call there, i let them bind onto props as the scrum was stable. It was 'only' a friendly not a tournament, so no variations were set. At least everyone got a game and enjoyed themselves.:)

Deeps
15-12-08, 11:12
It's really simple guys, every player in a scrum except the front row 'must bind on a lock's body with at least one arm' Law 20.3 (f).

This enables flankers in a 15 a side game to bind onto the second or the third rows but never onto the front row. Unless there are written variations then the LoTG apply, always, friendly or not.