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View Full Version : that drop kick restart - Eng v Samoa



ex-lucy
29-11-05, 14:11
i am surprised nobody has brought this up yet ...

anyway .. PR's take on it ...

"At Twickenham Harry Ellis scored a try for England and Charlie Hodgson converted it. That meant that Samoa were to kick off again.

Eliota Fuimaono-Sapolu takes the kick off. He tosses the ball in front of him. It bounces. He waits. The ball reaches to top of its bounce, just under waist high, and then starts to drop. At this stage Fuimaono-Sapolu kicks the ball high into the air.

Law 13.1 (a) A team kicks off with a drop-kick which must be taken at or behind the centre of the half-way line.

(b) If the ball is kicked off with the wrong type of kick, or from the incorrect place, the opposing team has two choices:

To have the ball kicked off again, or
To have a scrum at the centre of the half-way line and they throw in the ball.

Was what Fuimaono-Sapolu did a drop?

So what's a drop?

Definitions

Drop-kick: The ball is dropped from the hand or hands to the ground and kicked as it rises from its first bounce.

As it rises, not after it has risen!

Was what Eliota Fuimaono-Sapolu did a drop?

Not within the definition, which means England would have had the choice of a kick again by Samoa or a scrum for themselves at the middle of the half-way line.

Have you ever seen that happen before?"

Big faux pas by Lawrence.

ExHookah
29-11-05, 15:11
I actually thought it was OK. Unorthodox, but nothing wrong with it. If kickers can get more height that way then I wouldn't have a problem with it.

In a similar fashion I had a match a while ago with some fairly inexperienced teams, and they were both having trouble with the drop kicks, so I eventually just told them to lay the ball on it's side and just toe punt it accross the 10M line.

Now the two are very different situations. One is an international team who are doing something unusual, whereas my example was an attempt to get the game restarted without continually dealing with shanked drop kicks. My situation technically involved incorrect kicks far more than the Samoan kick, but I felt there was no harm done. I think Lawrence might have come to the same conclusion.

Simon Griffiths
29-11-05, 17:11
It sounds like it was technically 'against' the Laws of the game, but even at that level, you would not be popular for giving such a pedantic decision.

It's like my coach said at half-time in my match on Saturday - just watch the hookers feet at throw in, he's just stepping into the field of play, don't ping him, but let him know you're watching (it might put him off).

It's another very inconsequential matter, and one that it would be against the spirit of the game to give. If you wanted to play exactly to the Laws, then manage it - much like a line-out problem (early lifting etc.) - "Let's have that again please gents, you can't do that."

Simon Thomas
29-11-05, 19:11
It was refreshing to see something a little different, and very pedantic if it had been disallowed.
Yes the ball may have been dropping when he kicked it, so marginally outside the definition given above, but it gave no material advantage to Samoa.
The game at Elite level needs more fun and enjoyment.
We can all 'ping' ever little thing, but that isn't why we are on the pitch as referees .What a boring game rugby would become if we did ?

Wert Twacky
29-11-05, 19:11
Ex-Lucy,

C'mon - lighten up a bit, like Simon Thomas said, the drop kick provided some light-hearted entertainment as has provided us with another talking point :p

"Materiality", would you have penalised it? Not good for game management if you ask me. As for a big faix pas, I think not. Well done Mr L.

ex-lucy
29-11-05, 20:11
i would have not have penalised it. I would have asked the kicker to take it again. But at this International level i expect better ......

it is material how he kicks it .. he is getting extra height for his players ...

Wert Twacky
29-11-05, 20:11
Still think your wrong thou....

didds
30-11-05, 09:11
so - the bone of contention is that he waited until the ball began to fall again before kicking it?

So presumably had he kicked it while it was on the rise still he would have been OK?

didds

Account Deleted
30-11-05, 09:11
i would have not have penalised it. I would have asked the kicker to take it again. But at this International level i expect better ......

it is material how he kicks it .. he is getting extra height for his players ...

If anything it made the kick harder not easier. No advantage by doing it other than it almost being like a dummy with England expecting it a micro second before it actually was kicked.
Play on with a gentle word to be careful with the kicks at the next suitable moment.

Deeps
30-11-05, 10:11
Look how long it has taken us to get the kick offs taken from behind the line, one could argue the 'materiality' card there? Does it really matter if the kicker kicks off 4" in front of the half way line? Of course it does, it is part of the game and to do otherwise is sloppy, disrespectful and yet another symptom of the showbiz syndrome manifesting itself at grass roots games.

Jonboy
30-11-05, 19:11
I coach juniors on a Sunday morning. Guess what a load of them were doing?

Yep - ball by the points, tossing it up with back spin and kicking it.

Robert Burns
30-11-05, 20:11
Lets be honest, if it happend on the pitch you were playing on before you saw it in the England game, would you have pinged it, and if so for what reason, your not going to tell me you knew that drop kick clause off the top of your head.

Play on,

I'm sure if you look at the microseconds of time there are lots of players that will actually kick drop kicks either just before or on the point they hit the ground, according to the law this too isn't right, but i'm not going to nit pick about it.

tim White
04-12-05, 19:12
I have had a couple of odd ones, if he dropped the ball and then kicked it straight away (first bounce) no problem. Messed up, depends on the level of game I think.

Additional piont I have pulled kickers for overstepping the mark - after twice asking 'at, or behind, the mark next time please'. You should have seen the look on his face when he complained and I asked him what was the very last thing I said to him, I appreciate this made me look a little pedantic but the loud explanation soon stopped any noise. Yes, he was trying to gain an unfair advantage, and yes the other kicker tried it but complied with my request.

Deeps
04-12-05, 23:12
I normally remind kickers at their first kick whether it is the kick off or a restart following a score. It is then remarkable how many forget. I may remind them at their first error unless I think it is excessive but that's it. Some may think it is being pedantic but after fair warning I see this as part of laying out the (ATP) stall early.