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Simonsky
18-09-09, 10:09
Stilling mulling over last game-At Line outs I was very aware of gap narrowing towards end of tunnel and kept asking the end players to widen a bit with bemused response-kept insisting at each line-out with threats of Free Kicking someone (both were guilty so who to free kick?) eventually they listen. After game, as home captain was filling out my report card, he expressed view that, at this level (12/13), trying to get them to be straight was, perhaps, a bit finicky -any views?

Simon Thomas
18-09-09, 10:09
Getting lines straight and separated is a key thing at whatever level.

It is foundation for offering a contest at line out and prevents a multitude of potential along and across the line offences !

The skipper may be satisfied with mediocracy and non-compliance but you shouldn't.

Simonsky
18-09-09, 11:09
Thanks ST-but what management technique would be best when both teams do it? I was gesticulating for them to widen at the end from the tram lines, maybe I should have walked along tunnel or had a word with skippers after repeat performances? It's the bemused look that gets me, as if you are talking the distilled essence of nonsense!

Simon Thomas
18-09-09, 11:09
never walk down the line of touch (or between scrums)

Ask, Tell, Penalise

Gte the rpops to mark front metre as per usual and lots of praise, thanks guys for working with me on this, etc.

Now address the back lads - ask the tail gunners to work with you too.

If still not apart, loud blow just after ball thrown, and again and again and again - like a continual reset of scrum.

Next a loud blow and FK - closing line - around half way area, so not critical.

Lee Lifeson-Peart
18-09-09, 11:09
you are talking the distilled essence of nonsense!

What a great line! :biggrin:

I have always insisted on it - not least for my own benefit in trying to make life easy for myself. I have a HUUUUGE gap at the line out and therefore know any shuffling in/jumping in isn't a problem. Blokes at the back tend to move in to see what's going on. I'll get them straight then if they come back in but it's thrown to the front - materiality!

Don't forget you want to move on even if they don't so always set your standards perhaps higher than the teams merit. At L9/10/11 asking usually works with a reminder. Not usually a big problem.

Taff
18-09-09, 12:09
.... maybe I should have walked along tunnel ...


never walk down the line of touch (or between scrums)Funnily enough walking through the tunnel was standard practice back in my playing days and I just assumed it still was. So I was a bit surprised when the international ref that took our course told us never to do it, as it wasn't unknown for a ref to "cop a back-hander". :wow:

Dickie E
18-09-09, 12:09
Ask, Tell, Penalise



I agree. It is ATP - not AAAAAAAAATP.

I've had similar situation eg scrum very slow to form. Quick FK seems to focus attention.

PS: 5 year olds at kindergarden seem to be able to form straight lines without much fuss. Its not rocket surgery. :)

OB..
18-09-09, 12:09
Its not rocket surgery. :)
No, but it is brain science (psychology).

Greg Collins
18-09-09, 14:09
Don't tell the tail gunners to widen the gap when you are standing at the front as they will shuffle into the gap to pretend to listen to you. Go to the back of the line and tell them from there having told the hooker to wait first.

I'd suggest that if you delegate setting the lines to the props at briefing then you've already done the A of ATP. So go straight to the T as Simon says by reseting after the throw. one side of the two will respond.

"I do not intend to tell you at every line out blue 6, straighten the line!" and if he doesn't ping him as much for stupidity as anything else.

and as lee says set a nice big (somewhat over a metre wide gap) and go from there

Dickie E
18-09-09, 14:09
No, but it is brain science (psychology).

:clap:

Dixie
18-09-09, 14:09
I appreciate that the tail gunners find it hard to see through all their mates, but doesn't it strike you as odd that the line never seems to bend the other way?

Seriously, the best single thing that you can do to improve your game at the lower levels is to insist on a decent gap, and make sure it is maintained. get that sorted, and your lineouts will pass off with no trouble whatever. Fail, and the wily old sods at that level have their hands in each other's pocket, their boots on each other's feet and are barging all over the place.

SimonSmith
18-09-09, 15:09
Here's what I do:
Tell the prop at the front of the lineout that gap maintenance is HIS responsibility. If I want Blue to step away, I'll say "blue, step please" and it's on him to get them to move.

You also have to be specific about who youwant to move to get the gap back. Just saying "gap please" won't get you what you need, as both sides will no doubt think it's the opposition at fault. Pick a team - the ones you think you most at fault, and get them to move. Or be very precise "both teams, step away please"

And yes, the gap IS important!

Davet
18-09-09, 15:09
Agree with all foregoing. Gap must be half metre either side of line of touch.

I tend to set the front men then simply enforce "stand one behind the other", with sh clearly defined (if present). That's ask. If line is crooked I
ask whose the sh? Him sir! Then you stand in the line, please. That's tell.

We know what comes next.