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ex-lucy
03-04-06, 21:04
a couple of tries on Saturday were scored with defenders hands under the ball ... well not right under, but sort of partly under it ... the attacker/ ball carrier had most of his upper body on top as well as his hands touching down, so i would say easily ball touched down on ground. But defenders complained that they had 'hands under'. To me they might have had a finger or two at most. With these tries, i was no more than 1m away (if that) at the time.

I gave the tries because some/ most of the ball touched the ground despite a finger or two under the ball. IMHO, the ball's surface that can be touched own is quite large and a finger or part of a hand would not stop a touch down for a try.

Is this a correct judgement and decision?

Simon Griffiths
03-04-06, 22:04
Provided that part of the ball makes contact with the ground it is a try. I had a similar situation in a match earlier this season. My (fairly curt) response to the defenders was 'the ball only has to make contact with the ground for a millisecond' - accepted by all and we got on with it.

The worst ones though are where you see the ball grounded and then watch a defender purposefully put their hand under the ball and claim that they held it up, a simple, 'grounded first, (then you got your hand under)' tends to do the trick here, and if they disagree, tough sh*t to be honest!

Deeps
03-04-06, 22:04
... the attacker/ ball carrier had most of his upper body on top as well as his hands touching down, so i would say easily ball touched down on ground.

I gave the tries because some/ most of the ball touched the ground despite a finger or two under the ball.

Is this a correct judgement and decision?

ex-lucy By your own admission the ball touched the ground and the ball carrier had downward pressure on it - so what's the problem? You will have far more difficult ones than this to pronounce judgement on.

I had one this weekend with the tackler wrapped around and on the back of the ball carrier trying to tell me it was he who touched it down not the ball carrier.

First of all, there are very few players with hands large enough to cradle a size 5 in its entirety; you and I are unlikely to meet them. When I get "But ref, I had my hand underneath!" I announce "Your hand's not that big."

With the difficult ones, look quickly then make a decision whatever it is and be bold and confident in announcing it. Fifteen players will be happy, 15 others will not so what do you have to lose? No, be bold, make your decision and stick with it.

ex-lucy
03-04-06, 23:04
that's what i thought, thanks chaps. and thanks for the retorts. i like them.

Robert Burns
03-04-06, 23:04
Doesn't even need downward pressure if he is in control of it, only if he is not in control of it. Just touching the grass is good enough, am I really expected to know what depth in the grass it should be too, not really.

ExHookah
04-04-06, 00:04
I'm with the rest of you on this, and have come accross both situations.

Two simple responses :

"The ball's bigger than your hand"

and

"It touched down before you lifted it back up"


It does put pressure on us to be there in a good position to make the calls. I had one yesterday where a kid was tackled short, grounded it short of the line and then pushed it over the line. It would have been OK had he picked it up and placed it over the line (or on the line), but he lost control of it and ended up knocking it on. He appealed to me that "On the line is a try!", so I told him "Yes it is, and had you grounded it on the line before you lost control of it then I would have given a try".

Simon Thomas
04-04-06, 11:04
I agree with my esteemed colleagues comments above. And let's use our common sense. As we saw this year, even with TMO top referees get it wrong !

Make your decision, be positive and don't enter into a debate about it.

Key issues for me to consider are :

Can I see the ball ?

Is it on the goal line or in-goal, plus is it within touch in-goal or dead ball lines ?

Can I see the ball actually on the ground, even with a defensive finger part under it not being enough to prevent a try award ?

Is the ball grounded (if held by the attacking player) or is downward pressure first exterted by attacking player (with non held ball) ?

Is a full defensive hand or hands between ball and ground ?

Davet
04-04-06, 15:04
Robert, please do not use the word "control" - pretty please.

Control is not required, regardless of commenst by well known TV commentators.

The word you should use here is carried.

OB..
04-04-06, 16:04
There is no reference in the main body of the laws to "control" of the ball.

The following illustrate its usage:-
3.10 (a) When a player leaves the field to have bleeding controlled …

Law 6 Definitions Every match is under the control of Match Officials who consist of the Referee and two Touch Judges.

Deeps
04-04-06, 18:04
OB - I see you have everything well under control as usual.