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bruce_fr
22-10-09, 11:10
Hello everyone,

I often see the referee raising both arms, towards both teams, at a line-out ; or raising one arm straight up, as a maul forms after the line-out (I think), but I don't know what theese gestures exactly mean. Can't find explanation anywhere. Could you explain it please ?

Thank you !

ianh5979
22-10-09, 11:10
Normally i will raise one arm when a ball is caught cleanly in the lineout to indicate to the fly half's to stay back 10 metres as the lineout is not yet over

dave_clark
22-10-09, 11:10
basically, it means that the lineout hasn't finished and both back lines need to remain back 10 metres. i've not seen it with both arms, but using one arm is a good management tool. it's a nice clear signal that shows the players that, should they advance, they're likely to be penalised.

bruce_fr
22-10-09, 11:10
Thank you :) What does "fly half" mean ?

Taff
22-10-09, 11:10
... I often see the referee raising both arms, towards both teams, at a line-out ; or raising one arm straight up, as a maul forms after the line-out (I think), but I don't know what theese gestures exactly mean. Can't find explanation anywhere. Could you explain it please?You may have been mistaken with the ref holding out 2 arms at a Lineout, as this usually means open play. The one arm up though (it started off in Australia apparently) is brilliant for the backs as from their angle they would otherwise find it difficult to judge whether the LO has finished - ie whether they still needed to stay back the 10 metres.

Our team got caught out with this just last week. They caught the ball cleanly at a LO and a maul formed. They automatically ran up to what they thought was the new off-side line ie the back foot, but the maul hadn't cleared the line of touch ie the middle line the ball was thrown down if you like, and the ref still had his arm up. They got penalised for going off-side.

Donal1988
22-10-09, 11:10
Flyhalf = #10

OB..
22-10-09, 12:10
A common problem arises when a team steals the lineout and pulls the ball down into a maul. Their opponents will frequently forget the lineout 10m offside line and rush up (illegally) to the maul offside line

bruce_fr
22-10-09, 12:10
Flyhalf = #10

Of course ... Thanks.

Simon Thomas
22-10-09, 13:10
Thank you :) What does "fly half" mean ?

To an Englishman, he is that bloke with 10 on his back who kicks a rugby ball most of the time he catches it.

To a Welshman, he is a near-diety with the feet of dancer, hands of an artist and a laser guided kick (on those rare occasions he neds to do so) - normally called the outside half in Wales.

SimonSmith
22-10-09, 13:10
To a Welshman, he is a near-diety with the feet of dancer, hands of an artist and a laser guided kick (on those rare occasions he neds to do so) - normally called the outside half in Wales.

Are you saying that Welsh #10s are fatties ST? Or just dyslexic Gods?

Phil E
22-10-09, 14:10
If (at a lineout) all the backs move up as a line and are all offside, where do you give the penalty?

Is it at the original offside line, or where they end up; and do you just give it on the 15m line, assuming they all came up together and you cant identify the first one to go offside?

Taff
22-10-09, 14:10
If (at a lineout) all the backs move up as a line and are all offside, where do you give the penalty? Is it at the original offside line, or where they end up; and do you just give it on the 15m line, assuming they all came up together and you cant identify the first one to go offside?This is one of the questions I asked the international ref when I did the course (he must have been seriously fed up of me by the end of the day) :D and his answer was "if there's more than 1 player offside, you award it at the most advantageous position".

Simon Thomas
22-10-09, 14:10
you mark it at the 9.9 metre point (where they first became offside) and choose best position (most advantageous to kick for posts / touch depending where on pitch line out has taken place).

Often this will be the fly half / outside half position.

ctrainor
22-10-09, 17:10
sorry, I still call them stand offs

Account Deleted
24-10-09, 08:10
Is it true that thet were called "Stand offs" because they stood off from making tackles?

OB..
24-10-09, 13:10
I believe it was because they stood off from the scrum.

However it was true that the wing forward was expected to tackle the opposing stand off in my early days.

Ian_Cook
24-10-09, 21:10
#10 has many names

Fly-half (England, Scotland)
Outside Half (Wales)
Outhalf (Ireland)
Loose Link (South Africa) - Afrikaans Losskakel - literally "
Stand-off (England?)
First 5/8th (New Zealand)
First Five (New Zealand - slang)
Five-eighth (Australia)
Open Half (Argentina & Italy ) - in Spanish "Medio Apertura", in Italian "Mediano d'apertura"
Opener (France) - in French "Ouvreur"

john g
24-10-09, 21:10
I believe it was because they stood off from the scrum.

However it was true that the wing forward was expected to tackle the opposing stand off in my early days.

when did wing forwards change into flankers.?:chin:

Dixie
24-10-09, 22:10
when did wing forwards change into flankers.?:chin: Well before stand-offs became first receivers

Dixie
24-10-09, 22:10
First 5/8th (New Zealand) Are you able to explain that for someone who's never been able to figure out the logic? There are 7 non-forwards, so 8ths seems a bizarre subdivision. The 5 eighths are presumably 14, 13, 12, 11 and 10? So is the FB an 8th 8th or a 6th one? Either way, who are the other two 8ths?

Utterly confused.:confused:

chopper15
24-10-09, 23:10
#10 has many names

Fly-half (England, Scotland)
Outside Half (Wales)
Outhalf (Ireland)
Loose Link (South Africa) - Afrikaans Losskakel - literally "
Stand-off (England?)
First 5/8th (New Zealand)
First Five (New Zealand - slang)
Five-eighth (Australia)
Open Half (Argentina & Italy ) - in Spanish "Medio Apertura", in Italian "Mediano d'apertura"
Opener (France) - in French "Ouvreur"

How do you get to know all that, Ian? :wow:


I know they called them a No.10 when they stopped using letters.

Michael P
25-10-09, 00:10
<<8ths seems a bizarre subdivision>>

Think about the other positions with fractions in their name:
Scrum-half (1/2) and Wing three-quarters (3/4)

5/8ths is the next possible fraction between 1/2 and 3/4.

So the NZ backline is: scrum-half....1st 5/8ths (standoff)....2nd 5/8ths (inside centre)....Centre (outside centre)....Wing 3/4s....FULL back.

(i think)

OB..
25-10-09, 01:10
Are you able to explain that for someone who's never been able to figure out the logic? There are 7 non-forwards, so 8ths seems a bizarre subdivision. The 5 eighths are presumably 14, 13, 12, 11 and 10? So is the FB an 8th 8th or a 6th one? Either way, who are the other two 8ths?

Utterly confused.:confused:
Back in the 19th century they had just forwards and backs. Then they decided that the players who were furthest back were full backs, so those between them and the forwards were obviously halfway back, or half-backs. It was common to have three full backs and three half backs. Their basic job was to collect the ball should the forwards mistakenly kick it out of the scrummage. They would then run it forward as far as they could before being tackled and letting the forwards back into the game again (it was considered improper to pass the ball in those early days).

There was quite a big gap between the full backs and the half backs (who stayed near the scrummage), so a position developed between the two. Clearly he was threequarters back. When England played Scotland in 1871, they had only 1 threequarter.

New Zealand started formalising the half back positions - between half and three quarters, you have five eighths. When the 4 threequarter system became popular, most countries played left and right centres, but NZ developed what we now call inside and outside centres. The outside man became the lone centre, and the two players between the half back (= scrum half) and the centre became five eighths. I suppose they balked at going to sixteenths, so they went for first and second five eighths instead.

In other words the fractions do not depend on how many players there are, but on how far back, relatively speaking, they are from the scrum.

(Done from memory - Ian may well have more information on New Zealand usage.)

Phil E
25-10-09, 09:10
Thank goodness they have numbers on their backs and not positions (like in Netball) !!