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Account Deleted
29-04-06, 16:04
Watching Newport Gwent Dragons V Glasgow Warriors last evening I noticed the referee gave turnover ball following scrums. He called "use it" and then awarded the turnover (no wheel was involved)

What Law was he applying?

OB..
29-04-06, 19:04
Law 20.4
(e) When a scrum remains stationary and the ball does not emerge immediately a further scrum is ordered at the place of the stoppage. The ball is thrown in by the team not in possession at the time of the stoppage.
(f) When a scrum becomes stationary and does not start moving immediately, the ball must emerge immediately. If it does not a further scrum will be ordered. The ball is thrown in by the team not in possession at the time of the stoppage.

Account Deleted
30-04-06, 11:04
Yes, but surely it must stop moving (howver gradual the movement is) and not restart. Are there a limit to the number of "Use it or move its"? or is it "use it or move it" and then "use it or lose it"?

The Laws quoted give the choise as "use or move it OR lose it". Would you let them restart it 3 /4 /5 times or just the one?

OB..
30-04-06, 11:04
The law I quoted was introduced in 2001, and IIRC it was intended to stop teams wasting time in what they considered to be a legitimate fashion.

In the same year, the more specific laws about mauls stopping were introduced, but clearly the IRB did not feel the same attention to detail was required for scrums.

It has to be up to the referee's judgement, and I suspect most would follow broadly the same criteria as for mauls. However it normally only occurs if a team is trying for a pushover try, so the referee should allow the contest and be reluctant to interfere.

ExHookah
30-04-06, 23:04
Law 20.4
(e) When a scrum remains stationary and the ball does not emerge immediately a further scrum is ordered at the place of the stoppage. The ball is thrown in by the team not in possession at the time of the stoppage.
(f) When a scrum becomes stationary and does not start moving immediately, the ball must emerge immediately. If it does not a further scrum will be ordered. The ball is thrown in by the team not in possession at the time of the stoppage.


I would hazard a guess that a number of referees are not familiar with this law, and probably 90% or players not familiar either.

SONA
20-07-06, 19:07
I would hazard a guess that a number of referees are not familiar with this law, and probably 90% or players not familiar either.
You are joking right? I think the majority of refs do know this. I found, in the south, that 75 - 80% of the scrum players know it. They get caught with an inexperienced SH and that is where they get the penalty from. Which is where "use it!" comes in. I give them one chance and a moment to move the ball. Then blow it up.