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Percival
18-03-10, 22:03
Did my first two "official games" yesterday and today-Only an under 12's game which was very one sided 87-7 the final. We'd already reached the "mercy rule" point, effectively ending the match but both coaches agreed to play on. Very commendable effort by the losing team, didn't let their heads drop and kept plugging away. Played in a good spirit. Didn't think I got too much obviously wrong.
Under 13's today.Much tighter game possession wise but a final score 47-0. I also thought this went ok, didn't have too many difficult decisions to make.Another game played in a good spirit, tough but fair. One thing that crossed my mind during the game was this:-
Blue possession-blue player held and maul forms and red steal the ball within the maul and turn towards their teammates(own goal line). The maul remains stationary. I've called for blue to use it as they've taken it in (originally) nothing happens so I give a scrum to red as, although they now have the ball, blue had originally taken the ball into the maul and hadn't used it.
This sound right ?. Thought about it afterwards and thought that even if this possibly wasn't technically right I could say that the ball had become unplayable and red were in possession so get the put in at the scrum.
Really enjoyed it though, positioning was a bit better didn't find myself getting in the way quite so much.
That may have just been luck of course.:chin:
Comments welcomed !!

SimonSmith
18-03-10, 22:03
Blue took it in.
Maul ended unsuccessfully in your judgement.
Put in goes to the team who did not take the ball in.

Is that right?

Ian_Cook
18-03-10, 23:03
Blue took it in.
Maul ended unsuccessfully in your judgement.
Put in goes to the team who did not take the ball in.

Is that right?

It certainly appears equitable!


Edit: Just checked the Law



Law 17.6 UNSUCCESSFUL END TO A MAUL

(c) Scrum following maul. The ball is thrown in by the team not in possession when the maul began. If the referee cannot decide which team had possession, the team moving forward before the maul stopped throws in the ball. If neither team was moving forward, the attacking team throws in the ball.

You were right. Blue were in possession when the maul began, so scrum with red throw in.

Percival
19-03-10, 00:03
Sounds good to me-Thanks chaps

Phil E
19-03-10, 00:03
It certainly appears equitable!

Edit: Just checked the Law

You were right. Blue were in possession when the maul began, so scrum with red throw in.

I can't believe you actually had to check?
Basic stuff chaps. (not you Percival).

OB..
19-03-10, 00:03
Why not check the law book on such questions? It is not always easy to find the relevant bit, but getting used to looking is very useful as a way of finding your way around it.

Percival
19-03-10, 00:03
Why not check the law book on such questions? It is not always easy to find the relevant bit, but getting used to looking is very useful as a way of finding your way around it.

Fair point !
I also thought i'd see how many pages the reply would get to. :biggrin:

As a BT ad once said "It's good to talk"

Phil E
19-03-10, 00:03
Why not check the law book on such questions? It is not always easy to find the relevant bit, but getting used to looking is very useful as a way of finding your way around it.

I'm just a bit surprised that a senior ref wasn't sure who got the scrum following a maul, to the point that he had to check the law book to confirm it?

Percival
19-03-10, 01:03
Nuff said.
Mind you we did have a senior referee in charge of the England v Scotland and I don't think, even with my limited experience, I would have put up with a fair proportion of the match having scrums reset.:confused:

SimonSmith
19-03-10, 01:03
I meant "right" as in "my understanding of the situation is correct" rather than "is my law right" or "is it morally the outcome"!!

I know the maul law, as well as others :biggrin:

didds
19-03-10, 01:03
Did my first two "official games" yesterday and today-Only an under 12's game which was very one sided 87-7 the final.

presumably a schools match rather than a club match under continuum regs?

didds

Ian_Cook
19-03-10, 04:03
I'm just a bit surprised that a senior ref wasn't sure who got the scrum following a maul, to the point that he had to check the law book to confirm it?


Phil

Firstly
I have learned over the years in a number of sports that I officiate (I am an equestrian Technical Delegate and a Dressage Judge as well as having been both a Rugby Referee and a Cricket Umpire) to NEVER give off the cuff advice without looking it up. Doing so can have a tendency to come back and bite you in the arse later.

Secondly
This is especially so with Rugby Union which, I think you would agree, has had more than a few Law changes in the last few years.

Thirdly
Having been an Avionics instructor in the RNZAF, I have learned that TELLING someone they are right/wrong, is nowhere near as effective as SHOWING them they are right/wrong.

Phil E
19-03-10, 12:03
Phil

Firstly
.....................

Fair enough :hap:

Jenko
19-03-10, 19:03
Phil

Firstly
I have learned over the years in a number of sports that I officiate (I am an equestrian Technical Delegate and a Dressage Judge as well as having been both a Rugby Referee and a Cricket Umpire) to NEVER give off the cuff advice without looking it up. Doing so can have a tendency to come back and bite you in the arse later.

Secondly
This is especially so with Rugby Union which, I think you would agree, has had more than a few Law changes in the last few years.

Thirdly
Having been an Avionics instructor in the RNZAF, I have learned that TELLING someone they are right/wrong, is nowhere near as effective as SHOWING them they are right/wrong.

That will be Phil E Shown then!:biggrin:

:clap: :clap: :clap: (list of 3 is supposed to elicit applause or so speech writers tell me any way)

Phil E
19-03-10, 21:03
:clap: :clap: :clap: (list of 3 is supposed to elicit applause or so speech writers tell me any way)

Firstly Jenko is a *&%$

Secondly Jenko is known as a £$%&"*&

Thirdly Jenko can &*^%$ himself


[listens for applause] :bday: :wink:

Jacko
19-03-10, 22:03
I'm just a bit surprised that a senior ref wasn't sure who got the scrum following a maul, to the point that he had to check the law book to confirm it?

Remind me - what's this maul thing they're talking about??

Percival
20-03-10, 18:03
presumably a schools match rather than a club match under continuum regs?

didds

Didds,yes it was a school match- they have an agreed 50 point difference "Mercy rule". The losing team wanted to play on but the game was effectively won. Being a quarter final the final score was a bit irrelevant

PaulDG
20-03-10, 21:03
Didds,yes it was a school match- they have an agreed 50 point difference "Mercy rule". The losing team wanted to play on but the game was effectively won. Being a quarter final the final score was a bit irrelevant

In case you weren't aware, the reason for Didds' comment was that club matches and festivals played under the RFU regulations have a six try difference "mercy rule".

And it doesn't matter who wants to play on. Once the gap is six tries, the match is over.

(If the teams want, they can rearrange their players, maybe lend a few to each other and use up the remaining playing time playing a different match, but the original match ends.)

Ian_Cook
20-03-10, 22:03
In case you weren't aware, the reason for Didds' comment was that club matches and festivals played under the RFU regulations have a six try difference "mercy rule".

And it doesn't matter who wants to play on. Once the gap is six tries, the match is over.

What??

Red v Blue
Red 30 points (six unconverted tries)
Blue 33 points (six penalty goals and five dropped goals)

Red wins under the mercy rule??

tim White
20-03-10, 22:03
a six try difference :)

Adam
20-03-10, 23:03
What??

Red v Blue
Red 30 points (six unconverted tries)
Blue 33 points (six penalty goals and five dropped goals)

Red wins under the mercy rule??

At U12 in the continuum, there are no dropped goals or penalty goals as the matches are played on half a pitch. Conversions are taken from in front of the post which is usually at halfway.

In school U12 rugby, they play as U13, but they don't have any official 'mercy' rule.

SimonSmith
21-03-10, 01:03
a six try difference :)

I suspect Ian's point is:
A 30 point difference is one thing.
A "six try difference" is exactly what he outlined - one team has six tries, the other has none. That is a six try difference.

Ian - did I misunderstand you?

Ian_Cook
21-03-10, 07:03
I suspect Ian's point is:
A 30 point difference is one thing.
A "six try difference" is exactly what he outlined - one team has six tries, the other has none. That is a six try difference.

Ian - did I misunderstand you?

That is exactly what I mean. But what I didn't realise is that at U12 level, your kids are still playing on a half-pitch. Ours graduate from half-pitches to full pitches from U9-U10 onwards depending on the Provincial Union.

Our 11 year-olds play on full pitches, with posts, penalty goals, dropped goals and conversions.

Bronze Whaler
21-03-10, 23:03
That is exactly what I mean. But what I didn't realise is that at U12 level, your kids are still playing on a half-pitch. Ours graduate from half-pitches to full pitches from U9-U10 onwards depending on the Provincial Union.

Our 11 year-olds play on full pitches, with posts, penalty goals, dropped goals and conversions.

I'm guessing your 11-year olds move up to the 15-a-side game at the same time, whereas under the Continuum this doesn't happen until a couple of years later. Am I on the right track?

TigerCraig
26-03-10, 04:03
The situation here:

Under 10 : 12 a side, full length pitch, but touchlines are brough in to the 5m mark. Contested scrums, conversion from the point of score (but no wider than the 15m mark)

Under 11 : 15 a side, full pitch, but no drop or penalty goals. No quick or short lineouts, no lifting or charging conversions

Under 12 up : Full Under 19 Laws

Plus, we have no mercy rules - games are always played to a finish, but the margin of scores is capped at 50 points

didds
26-03-10, 10:03
wheras in England

U10 basically a quarter pitch, contested 3 man scrums and lineouts, no kicking

U11 half pitch, contested 5 man scrum and l/o, 12 man team

U12 half pitch, contested 6 man scrum (no #8 pick up) and l/o, 13 man team

U13+ full pitch, 15 a side, basically full rugby, no lifting in l/o

didds

Arturas
14-04-10, 08:04
My trainer, Vytautas Vasilenko, is 1988 was the best USSR referre. And he trained me to read the law book every time you go for a game. Because every time you will find something you have forgoten.