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Thread: Obliging ref?

      
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    Learned Terrace Ref chopper15's Avatar

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    Default Obliging ref?

    An attacking player standing in touch tries to knock a loose ball in the FoP back to his wing.

    Instead he accidentally knocks it forward in the air parallel to the TL and the ref. plays advantage.

    The defender, knowing his pack is deficient in the scrum, catches the ball with one foot deliberately and obviously placed in touch.

    Thinking the ref would probably consider a LO nearer his GL wasn’t sufficient advantage and would probably indicate an unwanted scrum further away, the catcher shouts, ‘Line-out please sir’.

    Is the ref obliged to consent?
    'Keep-on-Truckin' Robert Crumb

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    Default Re: Obliging ref?

    You are up late tonight.
    First offense=knock on=scrum
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    Default Re: Obliging ref?

    First offense = Touch; No advantage possible -QT?
    Those are my principles, and if you don't like them... well, I have others.
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    Default Re: Obliging ref?

    Tim White-(tries to knock a loose ball in the FoP) The ball was still in the field of play and it was knocked forward.
    It is a scrum for the first offence.

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    Default Re: Obliging ref?

    Ball in FOP but player it touches is standing with one foot in touchy.

    First is the ball in touch - hence L/O.
    Second is the knock on.
    No advantage option.
    Next steps are QT or line out at line of touch to side who did were not the last to play it before it player standing in touch.

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    Default Re: Obliging ref?

    A player in touch may kick or knock the ball, but not hold it, provided it has not
    crossed the plane of the touchline. The plane of the touchline is the vertical space
    rising immediately above the touchline.

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    Default Re: Obliging ref?

    If the player in touch prevents the ball crossing the plane of touch by knocking it then the ball is not in touch. If he catches or holds it then it is.

    So the initial offence is Knock-on.

    The ball is not immediately made dead, so advanatage may be played.

    Ref plays advantage.

    Ball then goes into touch, nearer the defenders line than the place of the scrum.

    Have the defenders gained either a territorial or tactical advantage? If so then advantage is over and we go with the line out, if not we come back for the knock on and scrum down.

    Clearly there is no territorial advantage.

    There would appear to be no tactical advantage either. The lineout may suit the defenders better, or it may not - the advantage won't crystallise untill we see the result of it - and I suspect not even Chopper would advocate playing the line out as part of advanatge and then come back for the scrum if they messed it up....

    So the answer with the advantage of simplicity and compliance with the Laws is that we return to the first offence, and go with the knock on.

    That said, at low-level games where skill levels are poor in many phases of play I wouldn't object too much to a decision to go with the line-out, so long as the ref understood why he had done it and what the normal solution would be.
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    Default Re: Obliging ref?

    True Jeff - agree with that.

    But he has failed to complete the action successfully.

    I would not disagree with a scrum for knock-on either if that is how you interpretted it.

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    Default Re: Obliging ref?

    Quote Originally Posted by chopper15 View Post
    Is the ref obliged to consent?
    The answer to the question is "No".

    8.1(a) The referee is sole judge of whether or not a team has gained an advantage. The referee
    has wide discretion when making decisions.

    Follow my Award Winning blog The Rugby Ref


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    Default Re: Obliging ref?

    But isn't this a case of tactical advantage to the defending side?

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