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Thread: not support their own weight?

      
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    Default not support their own weight?

    Watched a match the other day and one side were winning a lot of turnover ball. This was how they did it:

    tackled player presented ball ball OK, lying horizontally across pitch, ball in line with stomach, and a c.2foot gap between body and ball

    first defender to arrive would lean over and place *both* hands on the ball, but in so doing was on the balls of his feet, and had a considerably amount of his weight was going though his arms into the ball. He is not touching the tackled player at all

    His team mates would then come in behind him, grab hold of him and drive forward/lift him up in order to get him back on his feet.

    Apart from applauding a marvellous piece of athleticism and clearly well practised and executed technique by all the players involved, there was a nagging doubt in my mind about whether or not the player was off his feet. If the ball was not there it would have been a penalty for diving over.

    The ref did not ping them for it all game.

    Curious as to your views
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    Default Re: not support their own weight?

    By defender do you mean the team not in posession? If so why does he not just pick the ball up given the tackled player has released it and it is 2' from him?

    If the first player in is a team mate of the tackled player then sounds like off his feet to me.
    Last edited by Lee Lifeson-Peart; 18-03-11 at 14:03.
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    Default Re: not support their own weight?

    sounds like he was off his feet.
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    Default Re: not support their own weight?

    We were always told to step over the player with one foot in such circumstances so you are balanced when you pick the ball up.
    He trudg’d along unknowing what he sought,
    And whistled as he went, for want of thought.
    The Referee by John Dryden

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    Default Re: not support their own weight?

    Quote Originally Posted by gillburt View Post
    first defender to arrive would lean over and place *both* hands on the ball, but in so doing was on the balls of his feet, and had a considerably amount of his weight was going though his arms into the ball. He is not touching the tackled player at all

    Curious as to your views
    He's playing the ball and gained possession of it so I'd say either of these apply:

    15.6(a) After a tackle, all other players must be on their feet when they play the ball. Players are on their feet if no other part of their body is supported by the ground or players on the ground.
    Sanction: Penalty kick

    15.6(e) Any player who gains possession of the ball at the tackle must play the ball immediately by moving away or passing or kicking the ball.
    Sanction: Penalty kick

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    Default Re: not support their own weight?

    Quote Originally Posted by Treadmore View Post
    He's playing the ball and gained possession of it so I'd say either of these apply:

    15.6(a) After a tackle, all other players must be on their feet when they play the ball. Players are on their feet if no other part of their body is supported by the ground or players on the ground.
    Sanction: Penalty kick

    15.6(e) Any player who gains possession of the ball at the tackle must play the ball immediately by moving away or passing or kicking the ball.
    Sanction: Penalty kick
    I don't see where you say wether he is on or off his feet? Which is it?

    From Gillburt's description I'd say he was off his feet. Part of his weight is being supported by his arms / the ball.
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    Default Re: not support their own weight?

    This must be a new "fashion" for I am seeing a lot of it now in the ML/AP/6N. Quite often the arriving defenders just lean on the ground over the top of the man on the ground and wait for the cavalry to arrive. I don't understand why they don't go for the ball, but they don't. Mostly it's difficult to see as the attackers arrive and try to drive them back, but occasionally they are late and it's quite clear.

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    Default Re: not support their own weight?

    Not sure if anyone has seen this months rugby world magazine. In the coaching section they have been going over the tackle area, and are encouraging the first player fromt he attacking side to get into an almost horizontal position with his hands on the tackled played. (who has released the ball). This brings into question:
    1) Is the srriving player on his feet?
    2) can the tackled player move away from the tackle area?
    In my mind both are penalty offenses so whichever one you penalise should create no argument,I was wondering what others thought?

    Also, if the first one is defintely a penalty offence, why are Rugby world teaching such things?
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    Default Re: not support their own weight?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lee Lifeson-Peart View Post
    By defender do you mean the team not in posession? If so why does he not just pick the ball up given the tackled player has released it and it is 2' from him?

    If the first player in is a team mate of the tackled player then sounds like off his feet to me.
    Long Thread Alert!

    Why is it only an offence if the arriving player is the team mate of a tackled player? As with preventing the ball going 5m, I take the consistent view that actions are either lawful or not, irrespective of who does them. Off the top of my head, I can only think of two exceptions, both of which are very recent law amendments: a ball carrier is permitted to play an opponent who doesn't have the ball - anyone else doin this commits an offence; and a jackler can handle a ball in a ruck.

    In general, sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander. I see the action described as going off the feet. However, I can fully understand the reluctance to ping a jackler getting hands on the ball; the thin end of another wedge perhaps, though its hard to see where the wide end might be.
    Don't feed the pedant!

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    Default Re: not support their own weight?

    Quote Originally Posted by evilad View Post
    Not sure if anyone has seen this months rugby world magazine. In the coaching section they have been going over the tackle area, and are encouraging the first player fromt he attacking side to get into an almost horizontal position with his hands on the tackled played. (who has released the ball). This brings into question:
    1) Is the srriving player on his feet?
    2) can the tackled player move away from the tackle area?
    In my mind both are penalty offenses so whichever one you penalise should create no argument,I was wondering what others thought?

    Also, if the first one is defintely a penalty offence, why are Rugby world teaching such things?
    YES I saw that article too and was going to start a thread on it.

    This is coaching aimed at kids/youth rugby, from a London Irish coach (i think), he makes the point about making sure head and shoulders are above hips (OK give him that one), but the position they have the "sealer" in is a PK in anyones book! I use the team "sealer" because that's what he's doing. The coach goes on to say this player must support his own weight, but forgets to mention this should be on his feet and not his elbows

    Anyone got a contact at Rugby World, might be worth a call/email?

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