Page 3 of 3 FirstFirst 123
Results 21 to 30 of 30

Thread: Can a player intentionally run into touch with the ball?

      
  1. #21

    Advises in England
    OB..'s Avatar

    Soc/Assoc
    Glos & District
    Grade
    Adviser (grass roots)
    Join Date
    07 Oct 04
    Posts
    22,685
    Thanks (Received)
    129
    Likes (Received)
    1641

    Default Re: Can a player intentionally run into touch with the ball?

    Quote Originally Posted by chopper15 View Post
    Don't get it.

    Why do you need to be in touch to run there?

    And why should a player want to throw a ball into touch from midfield . . . or from anywhere in the FoP?
    What is this - Monty Python meets Harry Worth?
    He trudg’d along unknowing what he sought,
    And whistled as he went, for want of thought.
    The Referee by John Dryden

  2. #22

    Referees in England
    PeterH's Avatar

    Soc/Assoc
    Hon Sec of Liverpool & District
    Grade
    7
    Join Date
    09 Mar 04
    Posts
    709
    Thanks (Received)
    0
    Likes (Received)
    0

    Default Re: Can a player intentionally run into touch with the ball?

    Quote Originally Posted by OB.. View Post
    What is this - Monty Python meets Harry Worth?


    words escape me
    ======================================
    Serious sport has nothing to do with fair play. It is bound up with hatred, jealousy, boastfulness, disregard of all rules and sadistic pleasure in witnessing violence: in other words it is war minus the shooting.
    George Orwell

  3. #23

    Promises to Referee in France
    L'irlandais's Avatar

    Soc/Assoc
    CT Alsace-Lorraine
    Grade
    EdR + LCA
    Join Date
    11 May 10
    Posts
    4,623
    Thanks (Received)
    50
    Likes (Received)
    263

    Smile Re: Can a player intentionally run into touch with the ball?

    Quote Originally Posted by OB.. View Post
    ...Monty Python meets Harry Worth?
    Honest ref I didn't have a foot in touch!
    Harry Worth was surreal long before the Python gang.

  4. #24

    Referees in New Zealand


    Soc/Assoc
    Bay of Plenty
    Grade
    Secondary School
    Join Date
    05 May 11
    Posts
    1,664
    Thanks (Received)
    19
    Likes (Received)
    248

    Default Re: Can a player intentionally run into touch with the ball?

    The law about not throwing the ball into touch makes perfect sense to me. It prevents a player who would otherwise be caught in a compromised situation (ie tackled and isolated) from easily avoiding it by easily getting it into touch.

    I had an incident after the hooter in a sevens game a few days ago when after the hooter a player of the team winning by a couple of points had the ball and was being bear-hug tackled near the sideline. Instead of forming a maul or passing it back to a team mate he threw it into touch. He was surprised to find out it was a penalty on the 22 in 15 (which, fortunately for him the losing side missed). He will never make that mistake again, I promise you that!
    "There is far too much talk about good ball and bad ball. In my opinion, good ball is when you have possession and bad ball is when the opposition have it." - Dick Jeeps

  5. #25

    Referees in England


    Soc/Assoc
    --
    Grade
    Grassroots
    Join Date
    14 Sep 09
    Posts
    18,464
    Thanks (Received)
    166
    Likes (Received)
    1933

    Default Re: Can a player intentionally run into touch with the ball?

    is it really in 15?
    I would have given it where he was standing.

  6. #26

    Promises to Referee in France
    L'irlandais's Avatar

    Soc/Assoc
    CT Alsace-Lorraine
    Grade
    EdR + LCA
    Join Date
    11 May 10
    Posts
    4,623
    Thanks (Received)
    50
    Likes (Received)
    263

    Default Re: Can a player intentionally run into touch with the ball?

    Quote Originally Posted by crossref View Post
    is it really in 15? ...
    Yes it's in 15.

    Law 10.2 Unfair play
    (c) Throwing into touch. A player must not intentionally knock, place, push or throw the ball with his arm or hand into touch, touch-in-goal, or over the dead ball line.
    Sanction: Penalty kick on the 15-metre line if the offence is between the 15-metre line and the touchline, or, at the place of infringement if the offence occured elsewhere in the field of play, or, 5 metres from the goal line and at least 15 metres from the touchline if the infringement occured in in-goal.
    A penalty try must be awarded if the offence prevents a try that would probably otherwise have been scored.
    I like the video example on the iRB website - the player gets yellow carded for his trouble.

  7. #27
    Player or Coach

    Soc/Assoc
    Warringah Rats
    Grade
    I am a Fan
    Join Date
    15 Dec 09
    Posts
    39
    Thanks (Received)
    0
    Likes (Received)
    0

    Default Re: Can a player intentionally run into touch with the ball?

    I don't want to start a new thread but here are some queries along the same lines of silliness.

    1. If a ball passed to a player accidentally hits his noggin and bounces forward it is obvious play on - but could he elect to head the ball forward (a) by continuing his run into it though he could have dodged it, and/or (b) ... by using a definite heading movement as in another code of football .... and play goes on?

    2. In Australian Rules football players are not allowed to pass the ball. They have to punch it with their fist, usually setting it up in the opposite hand first. That may not be the exact rule but .... in rugby union can a player with the ball in one hand punch it out (not forward) with the other to a team mate? You could see the case where a player would not have enough time to perform a back swing with his arms for a normal pass but would have time for the other.

    3. It's the last play of the game and the ref will blow the final whistle when play stops next. The ball is passed back from the ruck by the scrummie to a team mate in his in goal area to kick the ball dead and end the game. Instead he grounds the ball in-goal.

    Is the game over? I'm guessing: yes, and there is no infringement because it was not "acting unfairly" nor "contrary to good sportsmanship".
    Last edited by Lee Grant; 26-12-11 at 10:12.

  8. #28

    Referees in England
    PaulDG's Avatar

    Soc/Assoc
    East Midlands
    Grade
    Advisor & reffing a bit.
    Join Date
    11 Oct 06
    Posts
    2,932
    Thanks (Received)
    0
    Likes (Received)
    5

    Default Re: Can a player intentionally run into touch with the ball?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lee Grant View Post
    1. If a ball passed to a player accidentally hits his noggin and bounces forward it is obvious play on - but could he elect to head the ball forward (a) by continuing his run into it though he could have dodged it, and/or (b) ... by using a definite heading movement as in another code of football .... and play goes on?
    Nothing illegal about it - it would be a very unpredictable and brave move so I don't think we'd ever see it in a real match. Yes, play on.

    2. In Australian Rules football players are not allowed to pass the ball. They have to punch it with their fist, usually setting it up in the opposite hand first. That may not be the exact rule but .... in rugby union can a player with the ball in one hand punch it out (not forward) with the other to a team mate?
    Yes. (No point though. He could more easily throw it with the hand already holding the ball, which is, in reality, what happens.)

    3. It's the last play of the game and the ref will blow the final whistle when play stops next. The ball is passed back from the ruck by the scrummie to a team mate in his in goal area to kick the ball dead and end the game. Instead he grounds the ball in-goal.

    Is the game over? I'm guessing: yes
    You have guessed correctly.

  9. #29
    Player or Coach

    Soc/Assoc
    Warringah Rats
    Grade
    I am a Fan
    Join Date
    15 Dec 09
    Posts
    39
    Thanks (Received)
    0
    Likes (Received)
    0

    Default Re: Can a player intentionally run into touch with the ball?

    Thanks

    1. Yonks ago I saw Queensland score a try v. the Highlanders when a player, John Roe, accidentally ran into the ball with his noggin and either he or a team mate grounded the ball after it bounced over the goal line. I always wondered what would have happened if he headed it forward deliberately. You could see a hypothetical situation where a player could deliberately head it over a line of defenders to do the same thing.

    It sounds ridiculous but you could see a case where a player couldn't get his hands up to a too high pass in time and has a moment of inspiration and uses his forehead deliberately.

    If it is legal to head the ball deliberately I wonder if that player can be tackled, legally, before he regathers the ball? There seems to be a convention that, notwithstanding that a player cannot be tackled without the ball, tackling of him is permitted if he accidentally knocks the ball forward and attempts to regather it before it goes to ground. Would that convention apply?


    2, I've actually seen this done by an Aussie Rules player playing rugby (in a social game). But regardless, these fellows are very skilful in punching the ball out of the palm of the hand (though it's a smaller ball) a long way. I could see a case where the player could punch the ball out of his left palm with his right fist to his left when he would otherwise have to reverse his left hand to do a Sonny Bill pass - and didn't have time to swing both arms back to do a normal pass - or his left arm was grabbed.

    Regardless, I don't see what law it would infringe. Mind you, I don't see what law a knee "kick"or nudge in general play infringes - dropping the ball (not forward) onto the knee running at pace as Carlos Spencer used to do and got called back for (as opposed to a kneed free kick which Sivivatu tried a couple of weeks ago for Clermont v Leicester.)

    It was interesting that Rolland let him retake the free kick. But I digress.

  10. #30

    Advises in England
    OB..'s Avatar

    Soc/Assoc
    Glos & District
    Grade
    Adviser (grass roots)
    Join Date
    07 Oct 04
    Posts
    22,685
    Thanks (Received)
    129
    Likes (Received)
    1641

    Default Re: Can a player intentionally run into touch with the ball?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lee Grant View Post
    If it is legal to head the ball deliberately I wonder if that player can be tackled, legally, before he regathers the ball? There seems to be a convention that, notwithstanding that a player cannot be tackled without the ball, tackling of him is permitted if he accidentally knocks the ball forward and attempts to regather it before it goes to ground. Would that convention apply?
    If a player heads the ball he never had possession, nor did he attempt to gain it. In law it is just the same as a kick.

    The convention allowing you to tackle a player attempting to recover his own knock-on is essential because otherwise a player could gain an enormous advantage from his own incompetence. You might see a lot of "accidental" knock-ons!

    Mind you, I don't see what law a knee "kick"or nudge in general play infringes - dropping the ball (not forward) onto the knee running at pace as Carlos Spencer used to do and got called back for
    IRB Ruling 10 of 2004 said it was illegal because the player had to throw it forward to made the "kick". This is not too convincing since you have to throw it forward for a punt or dropkick. Those are only permitted by long established custom.

    I think the real objection to the "knee-kick" was that it was used because you could delay it much later than a conventional punt when being closed down by opponents, and you do not really want a player raising his knee sharply just when he is about to be tackled.
    He trudg’d along unknowing what he sought,
    And whistled as he went, for want of thought.
    The Referee by John Dryden

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Similar Threads

  1. player in ruck in touch?
    By wrighty in forum Archive
    Replies: 7
    Last Post: 20-09-11, 17:09
  2. Dragging grounded ball player into touch
    By PMWoody in forum Archive
    Replies: 29
    Last Post: 29-10-10, 19:10
  3. Injured player throws ball into touch?
    By Mich the Blind Side in forum Archive
    Replies: 10
    Last Post: 28-05-10, 21:05
  4. Intentionally throwing at player not 5
    By Play On! in forum Archive
    Replies: 20
    Last Post: 04-01-10, 10:01
  5. Player in touch or touch-in-goal.
    By Russ W in forum Archive
    Replies: 4
    Last Post: 21-10-09, 17:10

Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •