Page 6 of 6 FirstFirst ... 23456
Results 51 to 59 of 59

Thread: Weird In-Goal Play Question

      
  1. #51

    Referees in England
    Simon Thomas's Avatar

    Soc/Assoc
    Hampshire / Southern Federation
    Grade
    RFU Group Match Observer
    Join Date
    03 Dec 03
    Posts
    12,846
    Thanks (Received)
    37
    Likes (Received)
    148

    Default Re: Weird In-Goal Play Question

    It was very effective LLP, and almost always meant we were in the oppo half far more than our own - once in the oppo half we then had the big pack take it up in channels 1 & 2 to drawn in their 10,12 and flankers, with quick ruck ball to go wide with quick hands or a miss move at the third or fourth re-cycle.

  2. #52

    Advises in England
    OB..'s Avatar

    Soc/Assoc
    Glos & District
    Grade
    Adviser (grass roots)
    Join Date
    07 Oct 04
    Posts
    22,517
    Thanks (Received)
    108
    Likes (Received)
    1535

    Default Re: Weird In-Goal Play Question

    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Dolan View Post
    Hi,

    I have another 'weird in-goal' law question. This didn't actually happen, it was a scenario that formed in my own head while reading the law book last night. It states in the laws that a ruck, maul or scrum cannot form inside the in-goal area.
    What the law actually says is that a ruck/maul "can only take place in the field of play". If the ball is in in-goal, ruck and maul laws do not apply.
    That's fine, I can see how a ruck and scrum cannot form in in-goal, but what if the following scenario occurs. Gold are attacking, Blue are defending. Blue defender carries the ball into his own in-goal area where a Gold attacker tackles him, Blue player stays on his feet long enough for his team mates to arrive, meanwhile Gold's teammates also arrive. The ball is in Blue's possession but Gold have the ball and player wrapped up in the tackle. What has formed resembles a maul, but it has formed in-goal. Now, what happens if the maul doesn't go to ground or doesn't leave the in-goal area, it just becomes static. What is the referee's call?
    "Held up". And fairly quickly to avoid prolonged wrestling. 5m scrum to Gold.
    Secondly, if the 'maul' for want of a better term, leaves the in-goal area and re-enters the in-goal area and then goes to ground where the Blue defender is in possession, what is the call?
    Same as before. There may be arguments as to who had the ball when the maul started, was it a turnover etc, but as I see it, Gold have earned their 5m scrum.
    He trudg’d along unknowing what he sought,
    And whistled as he went, for want of thought.
    The Referee by John Dryden

  3. #53

    Referees in New Zealand
    Ian_Cook's Avatar

    Soc/Assoc
    Retired player and referee
    Grade
    Level 2
    Join Date
    12 Jul 05
    Posts
    13,252
    Thanks (Received)
    109
    Likes (Received)
    1468

    Default Re: Weird In-Goal Play Question

    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Dolan View Post
    Hi,

    I have another 'weird in-goal' law question. This didn't actually happen, it was a scenario that formed in my own head while reading the law book last night. It states in the laws that a ruck, maul or scrum cannot form inside the in-goal area. That's fine, I can see how a ruck and scrum cannot form in in-goal, but what if the following scenario occurs. Gold are attacking, Blue are defending. Blue defender carries the ball into his own in-goal area where a Gold attacker tackles him, Blue player stays on his feet long enough for his team mates to arrive, meanwhile Gold's teammates also arrive. The ball is in Blue's possession but Gold have the ball and player wrapped up in the tackle. What has formed resembles a maul, but it has formed in-goal. Now, what happens if the maul doesn't go to ground or doesn't leave the in-goal area, it just becomes static. What is the referee's call? Secondly, if the 'maul' for want of a better term, leaves the in-goal area and re-enters the in-goal area and then goes to ground where the Blue defender is in possession, what is the call? There is probably a really simple and obvious explanation, if anyone provide it that would be interesting.
    OB has given you the right answers to this, but just make a point, its not so much that these phases of play cannot form or exist in-goal. its just that once the ball is in-goal, the Laws that govern those phases (Law 16, 17 and 20) no longer apply.

    Same applies with the tackle. If a ball carrier is taken to ground in-goal,

    ► the tackler is under no obligation to release or roll away
    ► the ball carrier is under no obligation to release or roll away
    ► no-one has any obligation to stay on their feet or get up
    ► there is no gate, players can approach to play the ball from any direction
    etc etc
    "Never underestimate the power of the Internet to lend unwarranted credibility to the colossally misinformed"
    - Jay "Utah" Windley

  4. #54

    Referees in England
    Dixie's Avatar

    Soc/Assoc
    Retired from Berkshire
    Grade
    8
    Join Date
    26 Oct 06
    Posts
    12,769
    Thanks (Received)
    30
    Likes (Received)
    328

    Default Re: Weird In-Goal Play Question

    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Dolan View Post
    Hi,

    I have another 'weird in-goal' law question. This didn't actually happen, it was a scenario that formed in my own head while reading the law book last night. It states in the laws that a ruck, maul or scrum cannot form inside the in-goal area. That's fine, I can see how a ruck and scrum cannot form in in-goal, but what if the following scenario occurs. Gold are attacking, Blue are defending. Blue defender carries the ball into his own in-goal area where a Gold attacker tackles him, Blue player stays on his feet long enough for his team mates to arrive, meanwhile Gold's teammates also arrive. The ball is in Blue's possession but Gold have the ball and player wrapped up in the tackle. What has formed resembles a maul, but it has formed in-goal. Now, what happens if the maul doesn't go to ground or doesn't leave the in-goal area, it just becomes static. What is the referee's call? Secondly, if the 'maul' for want of a better term, leaves the in-goal area and re-enters the in-goal area and then goes to ground where the Blue defender is in possession, what is the call? There is probably a really simple and obvious explanation, if anyone provide it that would be interesting.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ian_Cook View Post
    OB has given you the right answers to this
    Welcome to the forums, Paul. Feel free to ask your "silliest" or "simplest" question here; far better to get it straight in your mind while you have time to think, than be presented with the issue on the field of play!

    I agree with OB that the attacking 5m scrum is the correct award.
    Don't feed the pedant!

  5. #55

    Referees in England
    Davet's Avatar

    Soc/Assoc
    Hampshire RURS (UK)
    Grade
    Society Assessor
    Join Date
    27 Jan 04
    Posts
    12,731
    Thanks (Received)
    0
    Likes (Received)
    2

    Default Re: Weird In-Goal Play Question

    Ball over the line is held up; 5m scrum attacking ball - and the ref should blow that quickly, so the "play resembling a maul", as the Laws describe it won't get chance to move around and go back into FoP. Remember, by definition it is NOT a maul, therefore the usual conditions about it moving forward etc don't apply - just blow up and scrum down. Simples!
    “We raise the watchword, liberty. We will, we will, we will be free!"
    George Loveless 1834
    Of more worth is one honest man to society and in the sight of God, than all the crowned ruffians that ever lived.
    Thomas Paine 1776
    FREE All of PUSSY RIOT - JAIL PUTIN

  6. #56

    Resident Club Coach
    didds's Avatar

    Soc/Assoc
    N/A
    Grade
    Club Coach
    Join Date
    27 Jan 04
    Posts
    9,591
    Thanks (Received)
    60
    Likes (Received)
    903

    Default Re: Weird In-Goal Play Question

    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Dolan View Post
    Hi,

    Blue defender carries the ball into his own in-goal area .... what happens if the maul doesn't go to ground or doesn't leave the in-goal area, it just becomes static.
    5m attacking scrum. I believe the advice in such situations is to blow early to avoid flare-ups. Sides need to do something positive with the ball very quickly (Rip/drop and score/touchdown).

    No maul=no offside = players can join from any position. Blow it early cos some players might not understand this and lamp somebody they think is "offside" !

    didds

  7. #57

    Resident Club Coach
    didds's Avatar

    Soc/Assoc
    N/A
    Grade
    Club Coach
    Join Date
    27 Jan 04
    Posts
    9,591
    Thanks (Received)
    60
    Likes (Received)
    903

    Default Re: Weird In-Goal Play Question

    Quote Originally Posted by OB.. View Post
    Same as before. There may be arguments as to who had the ball when the maul started, was it a turnover etc, but as I see it, Gold have earned their 5m scrum.
    I'd add that it is unlikely in the 2nd scenario that blue ever let go - so they took it uin, took it out, thenj (the important bit) took it in again.

    for blue to have won full possession at any time = touch down/clearance/play away from the "maul", for Gold to have done so would be a score/play away similarly.



    didds

  8. #58

    Advises in England
    OB..'s Avatar

    Soc/Assoc
    Glos & District
    Grade
    Adviser (grass roots)
    Join Date
    07 Oct 04
    Posts
    22,517
    Thanks (Received)
    108
    Likes (Received)
    1535

    Default Re: Weird In-Goal Play Question

    Quote Originally Posted by didds View Post
    I'd add that it is unlikely in the 2nd scenario that blue ever let go - so they took it uin, took it out, thenj (the important bit) took it in again.

    for blue to have won full possession at any time = touch down/clearance/play away from the "maul", for Gold to have done so would be a score/play away similarly.



    didds
    I think the chopperesque point of law is that when play goes into in-goal, the maul disappears. When it re-appears, is must surely be a new maul, with no clear way of saying who took the ball into it.

    I don't give much credence to the argument, and I agree the referee should probably have blown earlier to prevent this sort of thing happening.
    He trudg’d along unknowing what he sought,
    And whistled as he went, for want of thought.
    The Referee by John Dryden

  9. #59

    Referees in Australia
    The Fat's Avatar

    Soc/Assoc
    FNCRRA
    Grade
    L1 Ref & L2 AR
    Join Date
    15 Jul 10
    Posts
    4,202
    Thanks (Received)
    51
    Likes (Received)
    444

    Default Re: Weird In-Goal Play Question

    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Dolan View Post
    Hi,

    I have another 'weird in-goal' law question. This didn't actually happen, it was a scenario that formed in my own head while reading the law book last night. It states in the laws that a ruck, maul or scrum cannot form inside the in-goal area. That's fine, I can see how a ruck and scrum cannot form in in-goal, but what if the following scenario occurs. Gold are attacking, Blue are defending. Blue defender carries the ball into his own in-goal area where a Gold attacker tackles him, Blue player stays on his feet long enough for his team mates to arrive, meanwhile Gold's teammates also arrive. The ball is in Blue's possession but Gold have the ball and player wrapped up in the tackle. What has formed resembles a maul, but it has formed in-goal. Now, what happens if the maul doesn't go to ground or doesn't leave the in-goal area, it just becomes static. What is the referee's call? Secondly, if the 'maul' for want of a better term, leaves the in-goal area and re-enters the in-goal area and then goes to ground where the Blue defender is in possession, what is the call? There is probably a really simple and obvious explanation, if anyone provide it that would be interesting.
    Blue defender carried the ball into his own in-goal area. No-one was able to ground the ball and so the referee will not allow prolonged (maul type in this case) wrestling for the ball in-goal and will blow his whistle fairly quickly and order a 5m scrum with Gold (attacking team) to have the put in.


    Edit:
    Doh!!!!!!
    Didn't read the last page before posting.
    Didn't realise your question had already been answered.
    Last edited by The Fat; 26-03-12 at 22:03.
    When you are dead, you don't know that you are dead. It is difficult only for the others.
    It's the same when you are stupid.

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •