Weird In-Goal Play Question

[Simon Thomas]

It was very effective LLP, and almost always meant we were in the oppo half far more than our own - once in the oppo half we then had the big pack take it up in channels 1 & 2 to drawn in their 10,12 and flankers, with quick ruck ball to go wide with quick hands or a miss move at the third or fourth re-cycle.

[OB..]

Hi,

I have another 'weird in-goal' law question. This didn't actually happen, it was a scenario that formed in my own head while reading the law book last night. It states in the laws that a ruck, maul or scrum cannot form inside the in-goal area.

What the law actually says is that a ruck/maul "can only take place in the field of play". If the ball is in in-goal, ruck and maul laws do not apply.

That's fine, I can see how a ruck and scrum cannot form in in-goal, but what if the following scenario occurs. Gold are attacking, Blue are defending. Blue defender carries the ball into his own in-goal area where a Gold attacker tackles him, Blue player stays on his feet long enough for his team mates to arrive, meanwhile Gold's teammates also arrive. The ball is in Blue's possession but Gold have the ball and player wrapped up in the tackle. What has formed resembles a maul, but it has formed in-goal. Now, what happens if the maul doesn't go to ground or doesn't leave the in-goal area, it just becomes static. What is the referee's call?

"Held up". And fairly quickly to avoid prolonged wrestling. 5m scrum to Gold.

Secondly, if the 'maul' for want of a better term, leaves the in-goal area and re-enters the in-goal area and then goes to ground where the Blue defender is in possession, what is the call?

Same as before. There may be arguments as to who had the ball when the maul started, was it a turnover etc, but as I see it, Gold have earned their 5m scrum.

[Ian_Cook]

Hi,

I have another 'weird in-goal' law question. This didn't actually happen, it was a scenario that formed in my own head while reading the law book last night. It states in the laws that a ruck, maul or scrum cannot form inside the in-goal area. That's fine, I can see how a ruck and scrum cannot form in in-goal, but what if the following scenario occurs. Gold are attacking, Blue are defending. Blue defender carries the ball into his own in-goal area where a Gold attacker tackles him, Blue player stays on his feet long enough for his team mates to arrive, meanwhile Gold's teammates also arrive. The ball is in Blue's possession but Gold have the ball and player wrapped up in the tackle. What has formed resembles a maul, but it has formed in-goal. Now, what happens if the maul doesn't go to ground or doesn't leave the in-goal area, it just becomes static. What is the referee's call? Secondly, if the 'maul' for want of a better term, leaves the in-goal area and re-enters the in-goal area and then goes to ground where the Blue defender is in possession, what is the call? There is probably a really simple and obvious explanation, if anyone provide it that would be interesting.

OB has given you the right answers to this, but just make a point, its not so much that these phases of play cannot form or exist in-goal. its just that once the ball is in-goal, the Laws that govern those phases (Law 16, 17 and 20) no longer apply.

Same applies with the tackle. If a ball carrier is taken to ground in-goal,

► the tackler is under no obligation to release or roll away
► the ball carrier is under no obligation to release or roll away
► no-one has any obligation to stay on their feet or get up
► there is no gate, players can approach to play the ball from any direction
etc etc

[Dixie]

Hi,

I have another 'weird in-goal' law question. This didn't actually happen, it was a scenario that formed in my own head while reading the law book last night. It states in the laws that a ruck, maul or scrum cannot form inside the in-goal area. That's fine, I can see how a ruck and scrum cannot form in in-goal, but what if the following scenario occurs. Gold are attacking, Blue are defending. Blue defender carries the ball into his own in-goal area where a Gold attacker tackles him, Blue player stays on his feet long enough for his team mates to arrive, meanwhile Gold's teammates also arrive. The ball is in Blue's possession but Gold have the ball and player wrapped up in the tackle. What has formed resembles a maul, but it has formed in-goal. Now, what happens if the maul doesn't go to ground or doesn't leave the in-goal area, it just becomes static. What is the referee's call? Secondly, if the 'maul' for want of a better term, leaves the in-goal area and re-enters the in-goal area and then goes to ground where the Blue defender is in possession, what is the call? There is probably a really simple and obvious explanation, if anyone provide it that would be interesting.

OB has given you the right answers to this

Welcome to the forums, Paul. Feel free to ask your "silliest" or "simplest" question here; far better to get it straight in your mind while you have time to think, than be presented with the issue on the field of play!

I agree with OB that the attacking 5m scrum is the correct award.

[Davet]

Ball over the line is held up; 5m scrum attacking ball - and the ref should blow that quickly, so the "play resembling a maul", as the Laws describe it won't get chance to move around and go back into FoP. Remember, by definition it is NOT a maul, therefore the usual conditions about it moving forward etc don't apply - just blow up and scrum down. Simples!

[didds]

Hi,

Blue defender carries the ball into his own in-goal area .... what happens if the maul doesn't go to ground or doesn't leave the in-goal area, it just becomes static.

5m attacking scrum. I believe the advice in such situations is to blow early to avoid flare-ups. Sides need to do something positive with the ball very quickly (Rip/drop and score/touchdown).

No maul=no offside = players can join from any position. Blow it early cos some players might not understand this and lamp somebody they think is "offside" !

didds

[didds]

Same as before. There may be arguments as to who had the ball when the maul started, was it a turnover etc, but as I see it, Gold have earned their 5m scrum.

I'd add that it is unlikely in the 2nd scenario that blue ever let go - so they took it uin, took it out, thenj (the important bit) took it in again.

for blue to have won full possession at any time = touch down/clearance/play away from the "maul", for Gold to have done so would be a score/play away similarly.



didds

[OB..]

I'd add that it is unlikely in the 2nd scenario that blue ever let go - so they took it uin, took it out, thenj (the important bit) took it in again.

for blue to have won full possession at any time = touch down/clearance/play away from the "maul", for Gold to have done so would be a score/play away similarly.



didds

I think the chopperesque point of law is that when play goes into in-goal, the maul disappears. When it re-appears, is must surely be a new maul, with no clear way of saying who took the ball into it.

I don't give much credence to the argument, and I agree the referee should probably have blown earlier to prevent this sort of thing happening.

[The Fat]

Hi,

I have another 'weird in-goal' law question. This didn't actually happen, it was a scenario that formed in my own head while reading the law book last night. It states in the laws that a ruck, maul or scrum cannot form inside the in-goal area. That's fine, I can see how a ruck and scrum cannot form in in-goal, but what if the following scenario occurs. Gold are attacking, Blue are defending. Blue defender carries the ball into his own in-goal area where a Gold attacker tackles him, Blue player stays on his feet long enough for his team mates to arrive, meanwhile Gold's teammates also arrive. The ball is in Blue's possession but Gold have the ball and player wrapped up in the tackle. What has formed resembles a maul, but it has formed in-goal. Now, what happens if the maul doesn't go to ground or doesn't leave the in-goal area, it just becomes static. What is the referee's call? Secondly, if the 'maul' for want of a better term, leaves the in-goal area and re-enters the in-goal area and then goes to ground where the Blue defender is in possession, what is the call? There is probably a really simple and obvious explanation, if anyone provide it that would be interesting.

Blue defender carried the ball into his own in-goal area. No-one was able to ground the ball and so the referee will not allow prolonged (maul type in this case) wrestling for the ball in-goal and will blow his whistle fairly quickly and order a 5m scrum with Gold (attacking team) to have the put in.


Edit:
Doh!!!!!!
Didn't read the last page before posting.
Didn't realise your question had already been answered.