Foul play in-goal but after the ball is made dead

[Ian_Cook]

Got an answer:

Question: Hi all & congratulations on a great forum - it has become the international clearing house for curly questions.

Here's one:

Law 10.4 (n) tells us that the penalty kick for foul play while the ball is out of play is awarded at the place where play would restart.

Law 22.8 tells us that the defending team has a scrum/drop out option in the case where the attacking team kicks the ball dead through in-goal.

After the ball is kicked dead through in-goal by the attacking team and the ball is out of play, foul play is committed.

Where is the penalty kick restart if the foul play is committed (a) by the attacking team and (b) by the defending team?

Gaan die Melbourne Rebelle!

Jaco Peyper: Hi Rob

Thanks for the compliment - you guys make it a great forum with questions like yours... It made me think there for a second as this does not happen regularly.

As you quote the law, the captain has an option where he would like to restart play (1) anywhere at 22m or (2) place where kick was made from , therefore my submission is that regardless whether it is defending or attacking captain he has the choice where he wants to restart the game with the penalty at 1 or 2 above.

Regards, Jaco

http://www.sareferees.co.za/news/ref_news/2863704.htm

OK, I can believe that for the non-infringing captain, but not for the infringing captain, because he is surely going to choose the option of least advantage to his opposition.

[Dickie E]

What he is saying is that non-infringing captain gets the option in both cases.

Next time it happens to me I'll let you know what I did.

[Robert Burns]

Last night, I asked a friend of mine who is a referee at Provincial Level.

Rather than ask him what the correct decision is, I asked him what HE would do given that situation and had him make a immediate decision, just as he would have to in a game.

He said he would award a PK to the attacking team on the 5m line opposite the place of infringement.

Then I asked him to justify it.

His take is that 22.8 is "off the board", because the foul play takes precedence. He would treat it simply at as foul play in-goal (Law 22.16) and he said the first sentence of that Law is the important one.....

22.16 INFRINGEMENTS IN IN-GOAL
All infringements in the in-goal are treated as if they had taken place in the field of play. A knock-on or a throw forward in the in-goal results in a 5-metre scrum, opposite the place of infringement.
Sanction: For an infringement, the mark for a penalty kick or free kick cannot be in the in goal. When a penalty kick or free kick is awarded for an infringement in the In-goal, the mark for the kick is in the field of play, 5 metres from the goal line, opposite the place of infringement.

This is how I would play it.

[Taff]

This is how I would play it.

But isn't that for an infringement while play is ongoing Robert?

In the OP, the offence occurred after the ball went dead, so I think the mark for the PK is where play would have restarted. The only complication in this case is there are 2 possible places for the mark.

[Robert Burns]

Yep, I know what you're saying, but I still think a 5m penalty is more apt than a 22m penalty. If it was a significant time difference between the two, then I probably would go 22 Penalty.

Though thinking about it as I'm writing (and being a good boy and not denying my original thoughts), if I were to bring it back for a 5m penalty, why am I not awarding the penalty try? So now I'm thinking the 22 may be right.

I doubt any assessor would make an issue either, unless they had been reading here and wanted to make a point

[Davet]

I would always have been puzzled by the 5m option, unless you could blag me that it struck a defender before going in-goal and then dead.

[didds]

So jaco is saying the captain of the team awarded the penalty gets the choice of PK where the kick was made, or on the 22m?

didds

[Dickie E]

So jaco is saying the captain of the team awarded the penalty gets the choice of PK where the kick was made, or on the 22m?

didds

indeed