immediate contextual judgement

[Phil E]

I'm saying ping what has an effect, and use pre-emptive calls, down-time, and cards to ensure the message gets across..

No you're not, you are saying nothing is immaterial.

potentially immaterial
Nah, ping it.

potentially immaterial
Why is that not always material,

potentially immaterial
When? ......... How is it not material?

[Davet]

You provide quotes out of context.

Are you a Sun journalist?

In front of kicker at KO is material, it provides a spatial advantage.
Not straight lineout is material (as is scrum feed) it provides an easier take with less risk of losing the ball, if it makes it easier then you get an advantage if you get an advantage it's material.
Offside at set piece is material, offside closes down space and leads to a poor game for all concerned. Offside in General Play if it satisfies the criteria for a ping is pretty much by definition something that satifies the criteria for a ping...

[Phil E]

You provide quotes out of context.

You sound like Rupert Murdoch!

[SimonSmith]

The lineout throw can go straight to the opposition - so potentially immaterial

Offside does close down space - but that doesn't mean automatically that it should be penalized. If the blind side winger is 4m away not 5m, and the scrum haldf was ALWAYS going open, then I wouldn't ping.

It is always contextual - mood of game, material effect...

[Davet]

Simon - lineout throw to opposition would be advantage, and quickly over, rather than immaterial.

I would agree that very little is automatic, and I may a bit crabby today - but if refs can't control basics like offside at a set peice then they probably need to work harder.

[Wert Twacky]

Crossref: I've read this thread and am surprised and some of the comments that have made such a simple question sound like you've asked to split the feckin' atom.

Under-15s game against a touring side three seconds into the game, you were spot on - scrum for accidental offside.

Level 7 league game on a Saturday, different set of contexts to apply.

I would suggest a penatly kick for this, as someone else eluded to (OB?), would show a lack of empathy in a junior friendly/touring match.

[All The Time Ref]

I think that sometimes we refs work the wrong way with regardto marerial effect. We seem to start from NO and work towards YES. I think we, probably, should think material UNLESS there is reason not to.

On the subject of a Knock on (as opposed to accidental offside) 50 meters from the nearest chaser,why is it material? The defender didnot inany waygainfrom the offence. In fact he suffered from his error dueto the time lost in regathering the ball. Should we not apply material effect, either, to both scrum and PK offences or neither?

[Dickie E]

On the subject of a Knock on (as opposed to accidental offside) 50 meters from the nearest chaser,why is it material? The defender didnot inany waygainfrom the offence. In fact he suffered from his error dueto the time lost in regathering the ball. Should we not apply material effect, either, to both scrum and PK offences or neither?

We have a ref member who contends that a knock-on is its own punishment. I have some sympathy with this view. Imagine a game with all knock-ons being a 'play on' situation - could it work?

[Dixie]

We have a ref member who contends that a knock-on is its own punishment. I have some sympathy with this view. Imagine a game with all knock-ons being a 'play on' situation - could it work?

Yes - provided the law stipulated that the next person to play the ball had to be an opposition player.

[Dickie E]

Yes - provided the law stipulated that the next person to play the ball had to be an opposition player.

Why wouldn't it work with any player?