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Thread: Saddle Roll (still confused!)

      
  1. #31

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    Default Re: Saddle Roll (still confused!)

    I would also like to point out that once the ball is lifted and the saddle roll becomes a tackle, it is still illegal because the technique is all about contact above the line of the shoulders.
    from the boonies

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  2. #32

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    Default Re: Saddle Roll (still confused!)

    I love the way you twats blame the US all the time. in scotland I saw perfectly executed saddle rolls that were acceptable to everyone in the park, I see it in super rugby, internationals, HC, Aviva...you name it....how on earth do you get that the US is the only nation to allow it?

    I'm not in favor of the saddle roll...it's just a fact and has to be dealt with as a part of the game.

  3. #33

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    Default Re: Saddle Roll (still confused!)

    Quote Originally Posted by ddjamo View Post
    I love the way you twats blame the US all the time. in scotland I saw perfectly executed saddle rolls that were acceptable to everyone in the park, I see it in super rugby, internationals, HC, Aviva...you name it....how on earth do you get that the US is the only nation to allow it?

    I'm not in favor of the saddle roll...it's just a fact and has to be dealt with as a part of the game.
    Now don't get all defensive in support of Uncle Sam. I think there is almost universal disapprobation of the Saddle Roll, but as far as I know the US has the only governing body that has issued an incorrect technical justification for its existence. Everyone else seems to adopt the "don't ask, don't tell" approach - which, come to think of it, may be of Texan origin.
    Don't feed the pedant!

  4. #34

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    Default Re: Saddle Roll (still confused!)

    ....how on earth do you get that the US is the only nation to allow it?
    The issue is that the US have official documents that say it's legal, they are, as far as I'm aware unique in that.

    I'm not in favor of the saddle roll...it's just a fact and has to be dealt with as a part of the game.
    Exactly, deal with it by penalising it in cases where the ball is still on the floor.

    Keep pinging it, at all levels, and it will go away.
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    Default Re: Saddle Roll (still confused!)

    Quote Originally Posted by ddjamo View Post
    I love the way you twats blame the US all the time.

    ..............and your point is?
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  6. #36

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    Default Re: Saddle Roll (still confused!)

    Quote Originally Posted by Dixie View Post
    Now don't get all defensive in support of Uncle Sam. I think there is almost universal disapprobation of the Saddle Roll, but as far as I know the US has the only governing body that has issued an incorrect technical justification for its existence. Everyone else seems to adopt the "don't ask, don't tell" approach - which, come to think of it, may be of Texan origin.

    This is the key issue for me. It is clear to me that USAR and Mr Every have issued instructions that are clearly in direct contradiction with the stated Laws of the game.....

    The player that is being "Rolled", is the player that arrives first at the TACKLE and is still on their feet, crouching over the ball, but not in contact with players on the ground. Not lying on players on the ground, and not holding onto players on the ground. A RUCK HAS NOT FORMED
    .....is in direct contravention with....

    LAW 16 RUCK: DEFINITIONS
    A ruck is a phase of play where one or more players from each team, who are on their feet, in physical contact, close around the ball on the ground. Open play has ended.


    Its seems Mr Every fails to understand that the very act of the arriving player grasping the crouching player FORMS A RUCK and then rolling that player into the ground collapses the ruck, which is illegal!!!

    Both Laws 15 and 16 require players to endeavour to stay on their feet. While Law 15.7 (d) allows players on their feet to obstruct or push away opposing players near the ball, it does NOT allow them to deliberately grasp them and take them to ground.

    They also seem to think that there is a difference between (a.) two opponents bound over the ball, neither of whom have hands on the ball, and (b.) two opponents bound over the ball, one of which has hands on the ball. There isn't, it still a ruck either way...

    16.4 OTHER RUCK OFFENCES
    (b) Players must not handle the ball in a ruck except after a tackle if they are on their feet and have their hands on the ball before the ruck is formed.
    Sanction: Penalty kick


    I also agree with Rit Hinners point that even if it is regarded as a tackle (ball picked up) its still illegal because the whole technique being coached requires contact above the line of the shoulders.

    However, what really concerns me the most about this technique is that, while we do see it used in Elite level rugby, it is potentially very dangerous to use at grass roots, where there can be a wide disparity between players in upper body strengths and physiques. This is especially so at schoolboy/young adult level. We have had two young lads admitted to spinal units with upper thoracic and lower cervical spine injuries caused by players executing this exact same maneuver, but doing so poorly. Fortunately neither injury has caused paralysis, but only by the grace of God. In both cases, the techniques were not coached. The boys doing the saddle rolls were simply copying what they had seen on TV. This clearly illustrates the dangers of having different "rules" for grass roots and showbiz rugby.

  7. #37
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    Default Re: Saddle Roll (still confused!)

    Gentlemen,

    Many thanks for all of your excellent and informative comments. This is the first time that I have started a thread that really got going and I am indebted for your time.

    The root of my question is that I coach and referee youths who are at a level where they have the strength to do this technique and will no doubt have it done to them. I was wondering whether I should coach it. I have decided not to do this. Now that I am convinced that the move has no justification in law. I realise that I am going to have to field lots of questions from boys who want to saddle roll and coaches who think it is ok and that I am wrong for penalising but hay ho, I will learn to live with that.

    Thank you once again.

    Kempy

  8. #38

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    Default Re: Saddle Roll (still confused!)

    Quote Originally Posted by Kempy View Post
    coaches who think it is ok and that I am wrong for penalising
    this won't be the only instance where you come across this particular issue!
    Hi. I'm Barry Scott.

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