Page 2 of 8 FirstFirst 123456 ... LastLast
Results 11 to 20 of 74

Thread: Outside lines for quick throw

      
  1. #11

    Referees in England
    Davet's Avatar

    Soc/Assoc
    Hampshire RURS (UK)
    Grade
    Society Assessor
    Join Date
    27 Jan 04
    Posts
    12,727
    Thanks (Received)
    0
    Likes (Received)
    0

    Default Re: Outside lines for quick throw

    Crossref - maybe that's the question.

    If so then the answer is that if he was offside and pingable before the ball went into touch the ref would have been calling advantage - and when the ball hit touch calling no advantage and go back to the offence.

    If that wasn't the case then the ball in touch cancels previous offside lines and he can move forward - ie ahead of his kicker - to join the linout or defend the quick throw.
    “We raise the watchword, liberty. We will, we will, we will be free!"
    George Loveless 1834
    Of more worth is one honest man to society and in the sight of God, than all the crowned ruffians that ever lived.
    Thomas Paine 1776
    FREE All of PUSSY RIOT - JAIL PUTIN

  2. #12

    Referees in England


    Soc/Assoc
    LSRFUR
    Grade
    12+1
    Join Date
    14 Sep 09
    Posts
    7,060
    Thanks (Received)
    4
    Likes (Received)
    63

    Default Re: Outside lines for quick throw

    Quote Originally Posted by Davet View Post
    Crossref - maybe that's the question.

    If so then the answer is that if he was offside and pingable before the ball went into touch the ref would have been calling advantage - and when the ball hit touch calling no advantage and go back to the offence.
    If he was already pingable, then I agree with you, and IMO this is straightforwardly correct.

    It's when he is in an offside position but NOT pingable (let's say he was in front of the kicker and immediately started retreating sharpish, avoiding all oppo payers, so entirely legal) that the issue arises...

    your judgment ..

    Quote Originally Posted by Davet View Post
    .

    then the ball in touch cancels previous offside lines and he can move forward - ie ahead of his kicker - to join the linout or defend the quick throw.
    is sensible, and is indeed exaclty how I play it. But it's not clear in Law whether we are correct. It's a hole in the Law and deserves a clarification question IMO to make it definitive.

  3. #13

    Referees in Wales
    Taff's Avatar

    Soc/Assoc
    Llanelli District
    Grade
    WRU Level 2
    Join Date
    23 Aug 09
    Posts
    5,177
    Thanks (Received)
    8
    Likes (Received)
    38

    Default Re: Outside lines for quick throw

    Quote Originally Posted by Davet View Post
    ... If so then the answer is that if he was offside and pingable before the ball went into touch the ref would have been calling advantage - and when the ball hit touch calling no advantage and go back to the offence.
    That's made it a lot clearer in my mind.
    Link to Headcase - Recognising the signs of concussion

  4. #14

    Retired Referee in NZ
    Ian_Cook's Avatar

    Soc/Assoc
    Retired player and referee
    Grade
    ANZ Level 2
    Join Date
    12 Jul 05
    Posts
    9,016
    Thanks (Received)
    11
    Likes (Received)
    130

    Default Re: Outside lines for quick throw

    Quote Originally Posted by FlipFlop View Post
    I would ask myself the following question?

    Why is he offside? From what offside line?

    Was he offside before the ball went into touch? If so - then possibly penalise that.
    Once ball is in touch, then before the lineout is formed, there are no offside lines. There are no offisde lines defined for a QT, hence there are none.

    It is one of those things that can look wierd - like the tackle that players play as if it is a ruck, and then scream for offside, when there are no offside line.

    So assuming the ball travelled to the 5m line, and assuming the player was onside as the ball went dead, the play on.

    Moral of the story - QTs have a risk attached...

    I agree with this. If he was ahead of the kick that put the ball into touch and was running downtown towards the LoT, then ping him.
    .


    "The danger in arguing with idiots is that you risk being dragged down to their level and beaten with experience."

  5. #15

    Retired Referee in NZ
    Ian_Cook's Avatar

    Soc/Assoc
    Retired player and referee
    Grade
    ANZ Level 2
    Join Date
    12 Jul 05
    Posts
    9,016
    Thanks (Received)
    11
    Likes (Received)
    130

    Default Re: Outside lines for quick throw

    Quote Originally Posted by FlipFlop View Post
    I would ask myself the following question?

    Why is he offside? From what offside line?

    Was he offside before the ball went into touch? If so - then possibly penalise that.
    Once ball is in touch, then before the lineout is formed, there are no offside lines. There are no offisde lines defined for a QT, hence there are none.

    It is one of those things that can look wierd - like the tackle that players play as if it is a ruck, and then scream for offside, when there are no offside line.

    So assuming the ball travelled to the 5m line, and assuming the player was onside as the ball went dead, the play on.

    Moral of the story - QTs have a risk attached...

    It seems that the iRB have addressed the issue of player preventing a potential QTI from a previously offside position. They have made things clearer....

    At a meeting in May 2012, the Laws Representation Group (LRG) considered the areas of the Game where, it had been agreed by the LRG/Rugby Committee/IRB Council, Law amendments were not required but that current Law was to be enforced by match officials including:

    2 -Offside when the ball is kicked to touch thereby preventing quick throw ins

    http://www.irblaws.com/EN/guidelines...law-june-2012/




    ... or have they?
    .


    "The danger in arguing with idiots is that you risk being dragged down to their level and beaten with experience."

  6. #16

    Referees in Australia
    Dickie E's Avatar

    Soc/Assoc
    VRRA
    Grade
    Level 2
    Join Date
    19 Jan 07
    Posts
    7,971
    Thanks (Received)
    6
    Likes (Received)
    59

    Default Re: Outside lines for quick throw

    Quote Originally Posted by Ian_Cook View Post

    ... or have they?
    Why do you ask, 2 dogs?

    IRB is now avoiding the use of language in favour of moving pictures - will it catch on?

  7. #17

    Referees in New Zealand


    Soc/Assoc
    Waikato
    Grade
    Colts/lower grade seniors
    Join Date
    05 May 11
    Posts
    1,157
    Thanks (Received)
    4
    Likes (Received)
    32

    Default Re: Outside lines for quick throw

    As I understand it, the IRB is saying that the fact the ball goes over the touchline does not put people onside. They have to wait to be put onside in the usual ways (and presumably must keep retreating if they are within 10m line of where it lands unless put onside).


    This is a surprise to me; I figured that kicking the ball out should nullify any offside, but I'll just have to go with it.
    "There is far too much talk about good ball and bad ball. In my opinion, good ball is when you have possession and bad ball is when the opposition have it." - Dick Jeeps

  8. #18

    Retired Referee in NZ
    Ian_Cook's Avatar

    Soc/Assoc
    Retired player and referee
    Grade
    ANZ Level 2
    Join Date
    12 Jul 05
    Posts
    9,016
    Thanks (Received)
    11
    Likes (Received)
    130

    Default Re: Outside lines for quick throw

    Quote Originally Posted by damo View Post
    As I understand it, the IRB is saying that the fact the ball goes over the touchline does not put people onside. They have to wait to be put onside in the usual ways (and presumably must keep retreating if they are within 10m line of where it lands unless put onside).


    This is a surprise to me; I figured that kicking the ball out should nullify any offside, but I'll just have to go with it.
    This is what I have been saying for some time.

    Players are offside under the 10m Law the moment a team mate behind them plays the ball. They must retreat immediately, or at the very least MUST stop advancing until the satisfy the requirements of Law 11. The ball going touch may reset the offside lines, but it doesn't mean they automatically weren't offside.

    I liken it to the situation at the ending of a ruck. When the ruck ends, offside lines disappear, but this does not give a licence to all players to come around after the ball; only those who were onside at the moment the ruck ended are entitled to do so. Anyone who was offside at that moment is still regarded as out of the game until the requirement so of Law 11 are satisfied. Any other interpretation would lead to chaos
    .


    "The danger in arguing with idiots is that you risk being dragged down to their level and beaten with experience."

  9. #19

    Referees in Scotland
    Pinky's Avatar

    Soc/Assoc
    Edinburgh Rugby Referees Society
    Grade
    10
    Join Date
    09 Apr 10
    Posts
    491
    Thanks (Received)
    0
    Likes (Received)
    0

    Default Re: Outside lines for quick throw

    Quote Originally Posted by Ian_Cook View Post
    This is what I have been saying for some time.

    Players are offside under the 10m Law the moment a team mate behind them plays the ball. They must retreat immediately, or at the very least MUST stop advancing until the satisfy the requirements of Law 11. The ball going touch may reset the offside lines, but it doesn't mean they automatically weren't offside.

    I liken it to the situation at the ending of a ruck. When the ruck ends, offside lines disappear, but this does not give a licence to all players to come around after the ball; only those who were onside at the moment the ruck ended are entitled to do so. Anyone who was offside at that moment is still regarded as out of the game until the requirement so of Law 11 are satisfied. Any other interpretation would lead to chaos
    Ian, player are offside from a kick from behind generally as well as under the 10m rule and I would think that both apply where kicked into touch. Under 10m, they must retire until put on side. Generally, they must not advance towards the ball until put on side. So if the player that stopped the QT was offside, then ping him. If he had just run fast enough to be there and not offside, then stupid blue player for throwing it to them.

  10. #20

    Referees in England


    Soc/Assoc
    LSRFUR
    Grade
    12+1
    Join Date
    14 Sep 09
    Posts
    7,060
    Thanks (Received)
    4
    Likes (Received)
    63

    Default Re: Outside lines for quick throw

    Quote Originally Posted by Ian_Cook View Post
    This is what I have been saying for some time.

    Players are offside under the 10m Law the moment a team mate behind them plays the ball. They must retreat immediately, or at the very least MUST stop advancing until the satisfy the requirements of Law 11. The ball going touch may reset the offside lines, but it doesn't mean they automatically weren't offside.

    I liken it to the situation at the ending of a ruck. When the ruck ends, offside lines disappear, but this does not give a licence to all players to come around after the ball; only those who were onside at the moment the ruck ended are entitled to do so. Anyone who was offside at that moment is still regarded as out of the game until the requirement so of Law 11 are satisfied. Any other interpretation would lead to chaos
    the IRB seem (to me) to be saying more than that.

    I thnik we would all agree that anyone offside under the 10m law must be retreating (otherwise an offence is committed immediatley (play on as not material is ball headign for touch) but which becomes material if he interferes with the QTI.

    what the IRB seem to be saying is that anyone simply in front of the kicker, and offside, and remaining stationery (so not committing an offence) remains offside when the ball goes into touch, and so cannot participate in a QTI, until he is put onside in the normal way (by the kicker running past him).

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •