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  1. #1
    Rugby Club Member Pedro's Avatar

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    Question Ripping the Ball

    Sorry if this debate has already been had, but on reading trough the Law's online and trying to familiarise myself with some of the clarifications, I came across this:

    For the sake of improving consistency of ruling from referees worldwide, in the following scenarios, has a knock-on occurred? If so, who has knocked the ball on?

    1. Ball-carrier A from the red team runs towards the blue team’s dead ball line. Opponent B approaches A from in front and rips the ball out of A’s hands such that neither player has possession of the ball and the ball travels towards the blue team’s goal line. (We often see this ruled a knock-on by A).
    2. Ball-carrier A from the red team runs towards the blue team’s dead ball line. Opponent B approaches A from behind and rips the ball out of A’s hands such that neither player has possession of the ball and the ball travels towards the red team’s goal line. (We often see this either ruled play or a knock-on by B).”

    Clarification of the Designated Members of the Rugby Committee
    In each of the scenarios outlined the ball carrier is not responsible for losing possession.

    In scenario 1 the ball has been ripped from the ball carrier by a player ripping the ball from the ball carrier’s hands and it goes towards that player’s goal line. There is no infringement in Law and play should continue.

    In scenario 2 the player ripping the ball out of the ball carrier’s hands is effectively throwing the ball towards the opposition team’s goal line and this is an infringement which requires the referee to award a scrum with the non-offending team throwing in subject to advantage.


    In Scenario 2 - the clarification states that the player ripping the ball is effectively throwing the ball forward, is this not a PK rather than a scrum? If not, why?
    Learn, apply, Iterate, Learn, apply, Iterate.

  2. #2

    Advises in England
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    Default Re: Ripping the Ball

    Quote Originally Posted by Pedro View Post
    Sorry if this debate has already been had, but on reading trough the Law's online and trying to familiarise myself with some of the clarifications, I came across this:

    For the sake of improving consistency of ruling from referees worldwide, in the following scenarios, has a knock-on occurred? If so, who has knocked the ball on?

    1. Ball-carrier A from the red team runs towards the blue team’s dead ball line. Opponent B approaches A from in front and rips the ball out of A’s hands such that neither player has possession of the ball and the ball travels towards the blue team’s goal line. (We often see this ruled a knock-on by A).
    2. Ball-carrier A from the red team runs towards the blue team’s dead ball line. Opponent B approaches A from behind and rips the ball out of A’s hands such that neither player has possession of the ball and the ball travels towards the red team’s goal line. (We often see this either ruled play or a knock-on by B).”

    Clarification of the Designated Members of the Rugby Committee
    In each of the scenarios outlined the ball carrier is not responsible for losing possession.

    In scenario 1 the ball has been ripped from the ball carrier by a player ripping the ball from the ball carrier’s hands and it goes towards that player’s goal line. There is no infringement in Law and play should continue.

    In scenario 2 the player ripping the ball out of the ball carrier’s hands is effectively throwing the ball towards the opposition team’s goal line and this is an infringement which requires the referee to award a scrum with the non-offending team throwing in subject to advantage.


    In Scenario 2 - the clarification states that the player ripping the ball is effectively throwing the ball forward, is this not a PK rather than a scrum? If not, why?
    "Effectively" is not the same as "deliberately".
    He trudg’d along unknowing what he sought,
    And whistled as he went, for want of thought.
    The Referee by John Dryden

  3. #3
    Rugby Club Member Pedro's Avatar

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    Default Re: Ripping the Ball

    Thanks OB, can we move my post to the "Stupid Questions Forum" now please.
    Learn, apply, Iterate, Learn, apply, Iterate.

  4. #4

    Referees in Australia
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    Default Re: Ripping the Ball

    Quote Originally Posted by Pedro View Post
    Thanks OB, can we move my post to the "Stupid Questions Forum" now please.
    Not a stupid question Pedro. Quite often see TV refs get Scenario #1 wrong and play on in Scenario #2 when the "ripper" regains possession (after the ball has travelled towards his oppositions DBL).
    When you are dead, you don't know that you are dead. It is difficult only for the others.
    It's the same when you are stupid.

  5. #5

    Advises in England
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    Default Re: Ripping the Ball

    Quote Originally Posted by Pedro View Post
    Thanks OB, can we move my post to the "Stupid Questions Forum" now please.
    I thought it was a fair enough question, but I suspect applying the Clarification will still be mainly a matter of individual judgement.
    He trudg’d along unknowing what he sought,
    And whistled as he went, for want of thought.
    The Referee by John Dryden

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