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Thread: Making the ball dead

      
  1. #1

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    Default Making the ball dead

    Here is the scenario:

    Red have a drop out from their 22 and kick the ball into Blues in-goal area. Blue defender running back then kicks the ball over the dead ball line or over the touch-in-goal line. Has this player legitimately made the ball 'dead' and therefore is awarded a scrum back or make Red drop out again?

    If not, what does the law book mean by 'make the ball dead'? Is this the scenario of the defending player having one foot over the dead ball line and picking the ball up when it is in motion so that the ball is deemed to be dead already?

    Any help would be great.

  2. #2

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    Default Re: Making the ball dead

    Good question - I have seen it catch out one or two experienced refs who awarded 22m drop outs. Law 22/.7 (c) states "ground or make dead immediately" - usually it is a pick up & grounding action, but kicking it touch-in-goal or over dead-ball line IMMEDIATELY counts the same in Law. So scrum back option applies.

    defender foot on or over dead-ball or touch-in-goal and a moving ball is counted as dead so need to ground it or kick it out,

  3. #3

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    Default Re: Making the ball dead

    Yes he has made the ball dead.
    The only other question you need to ask yourself is, did he make it dead without delay?

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    Default Re: Making the ball dead

    If he did then he can have a scrum back middle of 22, or get the DO retaken.

    If not then he gets his own 22DO
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    Default Re: Making the ball dead

    Quote Originally Posted by Simon Thomas View Post
    Good question - I have seen it catch out one or two experienced refs who awarded 22m drop outs. Law 22/.7 (c) states "ground or make dead immediately" - usually it is a pick up & grounding action, but kicking it touch-in-goal or over dead-ball line IMMEDIATELY counts the same in Law. So scrum back option applies.

    defender foot on or over dead-ball or touch-in-goal and a moving ball is counted as dead so need to ground it or kick it out,
    Simon, law 13, referring specifically to the dropout going into in goal does not say immediately, it says without delay, which I would define as ever so slightly longer than immediately.

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    Default Re: Making the ball dead

    Quote Originally Posted by loten10 View Post
    ... Red have a drop out from their 22 and kick the ball into Blues in-goal area. Blue defender running back then kicks the ball over the dead ball line or over the touch-in-goal line. Has this player legitimately made the ball 'dead' and therefore is awarded a scrum back or make Red drop out again?
    Believe it or not I had this happen in an U12 game. It really threw me, but I gave the option of a Kick Again or Scrum anyway. I admit I wasn't 100% sure, but when I get home was relieved that it was correct.

    As Phil E says, what you have to ask yourself is "Was it done immediately"? If the defender picked it up, pranced around in-goal for a while to waste time and draw in the attackers ... only to welly it over the DBL as soon as they got within a few metres, then he's lost the scrum back option.

  7. #7

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    Default Re: Making the ball dead

    Quote Originally Posted by Taff View Post
    As Phil E says, what you have to ask yourself is "Was it done immediately".
    (Sigh) misquoted again.

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  8. #8

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    Default Re: Making the ball dead

    Quote Originally Posted by Phil E View Post
    (Sigh) misquoted again.
    Sorry Phil. What I should have said was "Was there a delay?"

    Agree that "without delay" is slightly longer than "immediately". How much longer? Well, you'll recognise it when you see it.
    Last edited by Taff; 27-10-12 at 11:10.

  9. #9

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    Default Re: Making the ball dead

    Quote Originally Posted by Taff View Post
    Sorry Phil. What I should have said was "Was there a delay?"

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  10. #10

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    Default Re: Making the ball dead

    Quote Originally Posted by Phil E View Post
    Simon, law 13, referring specifically to the dropout going into in goal does not say immediately, it says without delay, which I would define as ever so slightly longer than immediately.
    pedant - in a match sitiuation my immediately is the same as without delay, but in law you are of course right

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