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Thread: Wales v NZ

      
  1. #31

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    Default Re: Wales v NZ

    OK so I've had a second look. It might be red, but it certanly far from as nailed on as some are making it out.

    I've seen a lot worse get nothing, or a only a PK or only yellow or not even been cited.
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  2. #32

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    Default Re: Wales v NZ

    Sorry, Ian. I am as neutral towards this match as it is possible to be and this is a red card and a very lengthy ban. This was nothing short of thuggery - how would you deal with this if it was a colts' match? Red card every time.

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  3. #33

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    Default Re: Wales v NZ

    well if a punch to the head from behind is not a red every single time then i see no way forward for the game.

    diids

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    Default Re: Wales v NZ

    Quote Originally Posted by Ian_Cook View Post
    I've seen a lot worse get nothing, or a only a PK or only yellow or not even been cited.
    again, an interesting aside but one that you would vocally argue with if had the same logic been used to argue that a tip tackle was uncardworthy.
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  5. #35

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    Default Re: Wales v NZ

    Quote Originally Posted by Ian_Cook View Post
    OK so I've had a second look. It might be red, but it certanly far from as nailed on as some are making it out.

    I've seen a lot worse get nothing, or a only a PK or only yellow or not even been cited.
    Good for you my friend. I think your position was starting to become untenable.

    It will be interesting to see the punishment he gets. I don't see that this could be regarded as any worse than Greylings one that only got the 1 game, but then I was pretty angry about that so it shouldn't be viewed as a good precedent.

    Probably the only fair thing would be to give Hore what I thought Greyling should have gotten, which is 6 weeks.

    According to the guidelines for "Striking another Player with a hand, arm or fist" it is LE – 2 weeks; MR – 5 weeks; TE - 8+ weeks. Dunno where this one would rank, probably near the TE I guess (although again, if we go by the Greyling one it is LE) so I imagine after mitigation is taken out, 6 weeks will end up being the result.
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  6. #36

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    Default Re: Wales v NZ

    Quote Originally Posted by didds View Post
    well if a punch to the head from behind is not a red every single time then i see no way forward for the game.

    diids
    I 100% agree

    Of course, it has to actually be a punch or a strike to the head in the first place

    The only view that clearly shows both Black 2's right hand/arm and the right side of Red 4's head is from the leading sideline camera.

    It shows a different story completely.




    Now, if I was defending him at the judiciary hearing, I would be taking this in as part of his evidence.

    I would be claiming that my client was attempting to pull the obstructing player out of his way and that he made no contact with his head, and the fact it remained square on his shoulders and was not pushed to the left (as it would have been had a swinging arm made contact with it) is clear evidence of that.

    I would further claim that the opposing player's injury occurred when my client's right thigh struck his head when they both went to ground, not by any supposed contact my client's hand or arm made with his head.

    ***

    Now that may not be what happened at all, and there could very well have been contact with the head, but it is far from being as conclusive as some of you are making out.

    EDIT: Interestingly, the next replay (the one that is shown immediately after the one I captured the stills from) is from a sideline camera slightly further behind the two players. It definitely shows Hore's thigh striking Red 4's head as the go to ground.

    I would not be surprised it he wasn't cited, but equally, I would not be surprised if he was. I would also not object to either outcome.
    Last edited by Ian_Cook; 25-11-12 at 11:11.
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  7. #37

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    Default Re: Wales v NZ

    Your pictures show what is effectively a high tackle, round the neck, from behind on a player who does not have the ball, pulling the player to the ground.

    And you really see that as a defence?
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  8. #38

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    Default Re: Wales v NZ

    Quote Originally Posted by Davet View Post
    Your pictures show what is effectively a high tackle, round the neck, from behind on a player who does not have the ball, pulling the player to the ground.

    And you really see that as a defence?

    Yes, I see it as a defence against a striking charge!

    A high-tackle would not normally get a red card whereas striking could get a red card (and therefore a suspension)

    Once again, I am not saying this is what happened, I'm saying that is how I would be defending it.

    (Putting it this way allows me to have an opinion without being continually misrepresented. The additional bold emphasis to assist those who habitually skim posts without reading them fully)
    Last edited by Ian_Cook; 25-11-12 at 19:11.
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  9. #39

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    Default Re: Wales v NZ

    Quote Originally Posted by Ian_Cook View Post
    Yes, I see it as a defence against a striking charge!

    A high-tackle would not normally get a red card whereas striking could get a red card (and therefore a suspension)

    Once again, I am not saying this is what happened, I'm saying that is how I would be defending it.

    (Putting it this way allows me to have an opinion without being continually misrepresented. The additional bold emphasis to assist those who habitually skim posts without reading them fully)
    I didn't want to chime in...but as the prosecutor I would be saying the "clenched fist" in frame 2 is the first point of rebuttal against your claim that it wasn't a 'strike'. QED! The prosecution rests. Guilty as charged.
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  10. #40

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    Default Re: Wales v NZ

    Trying to remove my nationality to get an objective pov, I have come to the following conclusions, having seen it live, in slo mo and Ian's pics.

    It is a citing offence and passes the red card criteria for me, even if it started as an effort to get to the ruck and Hore was frustrated.

    High tackle - yes
    Tackling player without ball - yes
    Dangerous play - yes
    Strike - yes - the fist is clenched, and no effort was made to grasp.
    There is thigh to head contact as they fall.

    I see some merit with Ian's defence and suspect that will be the main line at the hearing.

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