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Thread: Top14 Toulon - Stade Toulousain (pass over the head, TMO)

      
  1. #41

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    Default Re: Top14 Toulon - Stade Toulousain (pass over the head, TMO)

    Quote Originally Posted by SimonSmith View Post
    Welcome

    Your English is better than that of some of the native speakers around here!
    I lived a few months in the US (and played a bit of college rugby), it helps a lot, even if it was two years ago. Back this summer to the US for vacations and visiting my friends!

    Quote Originally Posted by OB.. View Post
    You need to add #t=29m23s to the end of the URL.
    Ok, thank you, I think it didn't work because there wasn't m and s but a space between (a copy/paste mistake probably).

    Quote Originally Posted by OB.. View Post
    That clip is a good example of why I do not think forward passes can be sensibly judged on a 2D screen (by a static TMO). It is difficult (impossible?) to judge how move of the ball's apparent movement is upwards and how much is forwards/backwards.

    FWIW (which I don't think is much) I would estimate that after the ball left the player's hands it was travelling forward faster than the player ie he had added to its forward speed and it was therefore a forward pass.

    Individual examples have limited value since one side or the other of the argument can always point out that everybody makes mistakes. I have been going through this sort of discussion at regular intervals ever since I first started posting on rugby forums. So far nobody has ever produced any official pronouncement to support the "classic" interpretation. I had hoped that when the ARU/IRB video came out it would convince people but the personal belief is firmly ingrained and takes some shifting because the alternative seems counter-intuitive.
    It was a tough call for the TMO in my opinion. Foley (10) runs away from the defender, and he throws the ball over his shoulder. I would say that his movement looks good, but we can clearly see that the ball goes forward relative to the 5m line. How much is due to the momentum and how much to the player, difficult to say. In any case, from the many replays on Foley's hands, I think we can say that the TMO has judged the player's action and not the ball trajectory.

    I can also tell you that the debate has been going on for a long time in the small world of French rugby, and it is not much clearer either. With this decision in the semi-final, we are back to the starting point.

  2. #42
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    Default Re: Top14 Toulon - Stade Toulousain (pass over the head, TMO)

    Sorry for not posting more, but that was a tough day at work.

    I live in Toulouse nowadays, and whereas I don't fully support ST, I have a bit of sympathy for them (even I've been to three matches this year). I was watching the game on a bar and there was much discussion about the try. People supporting both ST and Toulon were backing both options.

    I did post the full replay before, but here it is for those who missed it.



    At the 26:30 mark on the video (no, the forum doesn't accept the "t=" sintax)
    Last edited by MrQeu; 27-05-13 at 23:05.
    Sorry about my English, as it isn't my mother tonge.

  3. #43
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    Default Re: Top14 Toulon - Stade Toulousain (pass over the head, TMO)

    [QUOTE=All The Time Ref;242299]Thanks for the Physics lesson. I fully understand the physics (one of my subjects)
    QUOTE]

    Wasn't trying to teach granny ATTR, sorry if it came over that way...... my main thrust was that ...... passes to the side much easier to sell , but hanging ones [especially really high throws] very difficult.

    I can only see the future as ...slow mo replays & micro examination/tracking of the ball leaving the hands being used by TMO's.
    The game is gradually providing more info to the viewer/listener, it will be interesting to watch developments.

  4. #44

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    Default Re: Top14 Toulon - Stade Toulousain (pass over the head, TMO)

    Quote Originally Posted by Browner View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by All The Time Ref View Post
    Thanks for the Physics lesson. I fully understand the physics (one of my subjects)
    Wasn't trying to teach granny ATTR, sorry if it came over that way...... my main thrust was that ...... passes to the side much easier to sell , but hanging ones [especially really high throws] very difficult.

    I can only see the future as ...slow mo replays & micro examination/tracking of the ball leaving the hands being used by TMO's.
    The game is gradually providing more info to the viewer/listener, it will be interesting to watch developments.
    No problem!

    I don't mind more info being given my the TV / radio companies, as long as it is not misleading and of the "Stuart Barnes" type. If the TV types help "sell2 the hanging passes then we have a chance.

    All that said we need to worry about the players first. Sell our calls to them first.
    The tenet that a referee is the sole arbiter of fact and law, allows me to be wrong, not stupid.

  5. #45

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    Default Re: Top14 Toulon - Stade Toulousain (pass over the head, TMO)

    Quote Originally Posted by Vann View Post
    This was a good decision and well explained by the TMO

    "It is not clear that the pass was thrown forward"

    This is what I expect to hear in the situation where it is unclear.

    While we do not have a "benefit of the doubt" policy in rugby union, we nonetheless do apply it whether we like it or not, and this is a good example.

    EDIT:

    As for the disallowed try in the OP (Toulon v Toulouse), it looks like an incorrect decision to me. That definitely looked at worst "flat" out of the passer's hands.
    Last edited by Ian_Cook; 29-05-13 at 01:05.
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    Default Re: Top14 Toulon - Stade Toulousain (pass over the head, TMO)

    Quote Originally Posted by Vann View Post
    ...PS : I hope my English is not too rusty
    Salut Vann,
    N'hésitez pas à allez visiter le forum français et pourquoi pas, laisser un commentaire... ou deux?
    "We demand strict proof for opinions we dislike, but are satisfied with mere hints for what we’re inclined to accept."
    John Henry Newman

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