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Thread: Stade Toulousain - Saracens

      
  1. #11

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    Default Re: Stade Toulousain - Saracens

    Seems to me that its difficult to determine who took that ball in as both players had a mitt on it and neither had control when the maul formed. Black put the drive on and were moving forward, so I would be giving it to black, if I had a good veiw of the contest (AR may have been slightly blindsided by the black player). Can equally see it being given to white depending on how you see the catch though and would probably be a fairer call.

  2. #12

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    Default Re: Stade Toulousain - Saracens

    Quote Originally Posted by Jarrod Burton View Post
    Seems to me that its difficult to determine who took that ball in as both players had a mitt on it and neither had control when the maul formed. Black put the drive on and were moving forward, so I would be giving it to black, if I had a good veiw of the contest
    That doesn't make sense to me.

    If White had clearly caught the ball, the scrum would be to White. If Black had clearly caught the ball, the scrum would be to White.

    You're suggesting that because it was unclear who caught the ball, the scrum should be to Black???
    I, for one, like Roman numerals

  3. #13

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    Default Re: Stade Toulousain - Saracens

    Quote Originally Posted by Dickie E View Post
    That doesn't make sense to me.

    If White had clearly caught the ball, the scrum would be to White. If Black had clearly caught the ball, the scrum would be to White.

    You're suggesting that because it was unclear who caught the ball, the scrum should be to Black???
    True...but that's what the law says you should do (ie probably one of those "when in doubt reward positive play..yadda yadda yadda"). No one is saying the law makes sense!
    Last edited by menace; 13-01-14 at 03:01.
    Tell em it's Law 23 and smile

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    Default Re: Stade Toulousain - Saracens

    Not listening to the audio, I felt that the call was unclear who took it in etc so the scrum goers to the side going forward / attacking side etc. Both of which point to a Black put in. However, whichever side caught the ball the scrum was to blue/ grey. Logic suggest that the "correct" call is therefore Blue / grey ball. The other possibilitie, that post to this thread suggest, are that either; the sight of Black catching a kick made the official "assume" the kick came from blue / grey Hence a Black scrum or there the maul did not form immediately. Neither are convincing.

    So, I guess it was one of those moment where logic deserts you in an unusual situation.
    The tenet that a referee is the sole arbiter of fact and law, allows me to be wrong, not stupid.

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    Default Re: Stade Toulousain - Saracens

    Could it be that AR/the TJ felt that white took it in and then black stripped it, drove forward and because of this they were the team in possession and going forward and gave it to them. Can't think of it in the Laws and for some reason can't get on to them but just a stab in the dark?

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    Default Re: Stade Toulousain - Saracens

    If you are clear Black took it in White get the scrum- team not in possession.
    If you are clear White took it in - direct from a Black kick - White get the scrum
    However, if you think there was a delay between White fielding the kick and the maul forming scrum goes to Black as team not in possession.
    If you are not clear who took it in scrum goes to side going forward - but in this case the maul was stationary, therefore scrum goes to the attacking team - Black,

    And they say the laws are too complicated.

    Camquin
    Last edited by Camquin; 13-01-14 at 10:01. Reason: typo

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    Default Re: Stade Toulousain - Saracens

    At original speed I thought black got the better of the 'contested' catch
    So I was looking for a white feed ...next

    Rolland looked to have made the same decision (he says "they caught the ball" as an explanation to the querying borthwick) , but then reversed it on the suggestion of his assistant (seemingly on the immediate maul law)

    Which meant it became the wrong decision IMO

    (Borthwick re-queries and Rolland says something about ' his' interpretation)

    A good example though well done for posting it,
    Last edited by Browner; 13-01-14 at 12:01.

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    Default Re: Stade Toulousain - Saracens

    Quote Originally Posted by Dickie E View Post
    But in this case it doesn't matter which team had possession when the maul began.

    If White took it in direct from a Black kick, then it is a White feed.
    If Black took it in direct from a Black kick, then it is a White feed.
    This is what crossed my mind also.

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    Default Re: Stade Toulousain - Saracens

    What if White took it is, but the ball was touched by Black before White caught it? So it isn't "Direct from a kick". So then White formed the maul, and didn't get it back, so Black ball?

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    Default Re: Stade Toulousain - Saracens

    then surely its a knock on by black (ball went towards white DBL) and scrum white?

    didds

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