Results 1 to 10 of 10

Thread: Sharks vs Bulls: Reinach Try

      
  1. #1
    Rugby Club Member

    Soc/Assoc
    Western Province Rugby Union
    Grade
    Level 7
    Join Date
    24 May 13
    Posts
    1

    Default Sharks vs Bulls: Reinach Try

    SANZAR has just annunced that the Reinach try on Saturday should not have been awarded (video is there): http://www.supersport.com/rugby/supe...s_wrong_Sanzar

    Firstly, the TMO mentioned he could not see anything clear and obvious.

    Now, there are two issues here: playing the player in the air and a knock on from the Sharks. I am unsure about the interference call (I would probably have called it, but clear and obvious gets me thinking), but I dispute that it actually was a knock on. Here is why:

    DEFINITION: KNOCK-ON

    A knock-on occurs when a player loses possession of the ball and it goes forward, or when a player hits the ball forward with the hand or arm, or when the ball hits the hand or arm and goes forward, and the ball touches the ground or another player before the original player can catch it.
    ‘Forward’ means towards the opposing team’s dead ball line.

    Bresler never had possession of the ball, so he could not lose it and thus that part of the definition is out. The ball didn't hit him, he hit the ball, so the part of the definition that we are concerned with is the underlined section. Also, the knock on occurs when the ball touches another player, as the Bulls jumper touched it between Bresler and the time it hit the ground. That being said, did the ball then travel forward from Bresler. I think not.

    (also please tell me if this is the right thread and if I am posting correctly, as this is my first post)


  2. #2

    Referees in England


    Soc/Assoc
    London
    Grade
    Level 6+1
    Join Date
    08 Nov 07
    Posts
    3,431

    Default Re: Sharks vs Bulls: Reinach Try

    Welcome to the forums, good opening post as well, sadly however the video can't be viewed in my region - will look on youtube see if I can find a better version for us.

  3. #3

    Referees in Australia
    The Fat's Avatar

    Soc/Assoc
    FNCRRA
    Grade
    L1 Ref & L2 AR
    Join Date
    15 Jul 10
    Posts
    4,204

    Default Re: Sharks vs Bulls: Reinach Try

    Here at 2:30. Not too clear on the video.
    Sometimes it's clearer if you go to youtube site to watch linked videos http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5sFMF09fgi8
    Last edited by The Fat; 17-02-14 at 16:02.
    When you are dead, you don't know that you are dead. It is difficult only for the others.
    It's the same when you are stupid.

  4. #4

    Referees in England
    Dixie's Avatar

    Soc/Assoc
    Retired from Berkshire
    Grade
    8
    Join Date
    26 Oct 06
    Posts
    12,770

    Default Re: Sharks vs Bulls: Reinach Try

    For me, the only reason that might not have been awarded was if the ball was knocked forward out of the lineout jumper's hands . Forgive me, I'm not familiar with the players concerned. I'm assuming that the opposing jumper was Bresler.

    I didn't see anything that made me think the catcher had been interfered with, though his catch and pop was certainly made under pressure. It looked like Bresler knocked the ball out of the catcher's hands. The question then is - did it go forward. It did not look to me as though it did - it looked to travel in pretty much a straight line as the #8 who popped it back to the #9 walked along the line of touch to do so, and flipped the ball above his head.

    Clear and obvious knock-on? Not in my book, but I never got anywhere near the good stuff, let alone elite.
    Don't feed the pedant!

  5. #5

    Referees in England
    DrSTU's Avatar

    Soc/Assoc
    Wherever I may be living at the time!
    Grade
    Runs like mini T-rex
    Join Date
    24 Dec 08
    Posts
    2,782

    Default Re: Sharks vs Bulls: Reinach Try

    Watched the game on Saturday and immediately thought it was a knock on and was surprised when the try was given. Big momentum shift for the Sharks with that try.

  6. #6

    Referees in England
    chbg's Avatar

    Soc/Assoc
    D&WRURS, HRURS & ARURS
    Grade
    Level 8
    Join Date
    15 May 09
    Posts
    1,059

    Default Re: Sharks vs Bulls: Reinach Try

    Much clearer clip from SA Referees (whose comment will follow in due course):
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ygh7V...U0AA-mx-tGRnxQ

    I agree - not clear and obvious knock forward from these camera angles; probably straight up and down. You can see that Black 4's hand moves in an upward direction (if you want to watch his hand), which only reinforces the opinion that the ball may have gone straight up and down..
    Be reasonable - do it my way.

  7. #7

    Referees in Australia
    menace's Avatar

    Soc/Assoc
    ACTRRA
    Grade
    Level 2
    Join Date
    20 Nov 09
    Posts
    3,578
    Blog Entries
    1

    Default Re: Sharks vs Bulls: Reinach Try

    I admit watching it the first time in real time, my instant reaction was, the jumper was grabbed/held in the air just before he caught the ball so I thought liable for PK there...and then the attempted swatting back, again to me looked obvious enough that it went up and forward enough to 'look forward' for the ref (if he'd seen it).

    I do concede that on replay that it isn't as clear and obvious and so the TMO did not have to rule any other way.
    Could the TMO had given advice that the player in the air was grabbed/held? Or was that not in his gambit due to the question he was asked?
    Tell em it's Law 23 and smile

  8. #8

    Referees in New Zealand
    Ian_Cook's Avatar

    Soc/Assoc
    Retired player and referee
    Grade
    Level 2
    Join Date
    12 Jul 05
    Posts
    13,491

    Default Re: Sharks vs Bulls: Reinach Try

    I am happy that the ball clearly travels forward at the top of its arc (see slo-mo at 1:07). Also, the Bulls lineout player standing on the ground after the ball is knocked, knocks the ball back with his outside arm.

    Also, this snippet from Lyndon Bray (in the OP's linked article) interested me

    "The TMO and referees are encouraged to have conversations so that their decisions are clearer to viewers who are listening over the broadcast stream."

    Taking a leaf out of RL's book from the RLWC last year?
    Last edited by Ian_Cook; 19-02-14 at 00:02.
    "You can Google for information, but you can't Google for understanding"
    - Jay Windley

  9. #9
    Banned

    Soc/Assoc
    n/a
    Grade
    < player
    Join Date
    20 Jan 12
    Posts
    6,000

    Default Re: Sharks vs Bulls: Reinach Try

    Quote Originally Posted by Ian_Cook View Post
    This snippet from Lyndon Bray (in the OP's linked article) interested me


    "The TMO and referees are encouraged to have conversations so that their decisions are clearer to viewers who are listening over the broadcast stream."

    Taking a leaf out of RL's book from the RLWC last year?
    I noticed that also ......
    It will help viewer education, especially when ' ball leaves the hands ' ... Generally a good thing me thinks. Can u think of many downsides?

  10. #10

    Referees in New Zealand
    Ian_Cook's Avatar

    Soc/Assoc
    Retired player and referee
    Grade
    Level 2
    Join Date
    12 Jul 05
    Posts
    13,491

    Default Re: Sharks vs Bulls: Reinach Try

    Quote Originally Posted by Browner View Post
    I noticed that also ......
    It will help viewer education,
    so long as no TMO says something like "he's got to let him up"!

    Quote Originally Posted by Browner View Post
    especially when ' ball leaves the hands ' ... Generally a good thing me thinks
    . Can u think of many downsides?
    Not at all.

    How can making sure that everybody understands referees decisions be a bad thing. Its one of the things I like about the way things are done in NFL.....



    NOTE: Have a listen to what the commentator says from about 1:34. Methinks someone's been listening to St Nigel !!
    "You can Google for information, but you can't Google for understanding"
    - Jay Windley

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •