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Thread: Failed Head Butt

      
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    Default Failed Head Butt

    Had a game where I was AR (hence posting here) Blue and Red players 5 m away hug and start "dance". Blue decides to escalate and performs a head-butt; too useless and fails to connect Red's head. Red then retaliates with a beautiful left hook, fails to connect.
    Flag out, get Ref attention at next stoppage, and describe situation clearly and concisely
    Ref seems to struggle with my description and seems to want to not hear me.
    I offer (I know, should wait to be asked) that I would go with RC & YC
    Ref declines and says let's go back to original restart (no PK...)

    Do you consider a miss as good as a hit with punches etc

    Do I just silently agree with the outrage on the sidelines and carry on (as I did) Rule no 1 of AR: don't make the Ref look an ass

    comments please

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    Default Re: Failed Head Butt

    I have AR'd before for a mate and there was an attempted kick by a player. He didn't connect but I judged there was intent there to injury/hurt someone so my words were:

    "4 gold has been tackled to the ground, whilst there he has attempted to kick the black tackler. He didn't connect, but there was definite intent in the kick and it wasn't just a twitch."

    The referee took this and gave a YC based on the pictures.


    At the end of the day I would not like it if my AR gave me a RC and YC recommendation without me asking for it, especially as I am wearing a microphone and this will come through on the DVD. What were your exact words?

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    Default Re: Failed Head Butt

    Quote Originally Posted by Marchioly View Post
    Had a game where I was AR (hence posting here) Blue and Red players 5 m away hug and start "dance". Blue decides to escalate and performs a head-butt; too useless and fails to connect Red's head. Red then retaliates with a beautiful left hook, fails to connect.
    Flag out, get Ref attention at next stoppage, and describe situation clearly and concisely
    Ref seems to struggle with my description and seems to want to not hear me.
    I offer (I know, should wait to be asked) that I would go with RC & YC
    Ref declines and says let's go back to original restart (no PK...)

    Do you consider a miss as good as a hit with punches etc

    Do I just silently agree with the outrage on the sidelines and carry on (as I did) Rule no 1 of AR: don't make the Ref look an ass

    comments please
    So the two players are hanging on to each other. One doesn't head-butt the other and one doesn't punch the other. What are you going to write in your report and what are you expecting the ref to write in his RC Report?
    When you are dead, you don't know that you are dead. It is difficult only for the others.
    It's the same when you are stupid.

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    Default Re: Failed Head Butt

    it would be the AR who did the report if the ref chose to act on his recommendations wouldn't it?
    Ciaran Trainor

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    Default Re: Failed Head Butt

    Hi Marchioly, unfortunately you don't have an offence as law 10 only refers to "punch / strike etc." not "tried to". [And before anyone jumps in, don't recommend a RC for unsportsmanlike conduct in this case].

    As The Fat says, if you take this off the field you have nothing for the paperwork and you (or your referee) will look an ass at the disciplinary panel. If the game turns on this then you could end up with protests to championship committees and it all gets horribly messy.

    You don't have to let it go though and you were quite right to bring it to the referee's attention, but do it so he can give the players a warning and cool things down at that next stoppage - ideally through comms.

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    Default Re: Failed Head Butt

    So Blue Smartie, a player who evades a stomp or a punch in the head actually reduces the sanction against the player who committed the action? By that logic a punch isn't a punch until it connects - so 5 punches thrown with no connection is just a PK? Surely a player throwing a punch or trying to stomp should be punished not on the final results but rather the intent of their actions.

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    Default Re: Failed Head Butt

    Marchioli, welcome to the forums - what a great question to start with! As you've already seen, this is an area with little (if any) uniform interpretation. On the one hand, you have the refs who look at the description and decide that no offence is being reported, so nothing can be done. On the other, you have people who recognise that with a little less luck on the day, one of the players may have ended up in hospital, and that we should referee actions not outcomes.

    Like all refs, you'll need to come off the fence and choose a side here - but you'll also need to recognise that there are two sides to the coin. The ref on the day took the "no foul, no cry" approach. As he's the primary decision maker, you have to live with it.
    Don't feed the pedant!

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    Default Re: Failed Head Butt

    I hear the points about what offense do you write on the form etc...

    But I feel the game is twisting itself in knots.

    "I'm sorry Mrs Bloggs that your husband will be a cabbage for the rest of his life. The previous 6 attempts by the opposition to stamp on his teammate's heads all missed and there was nothing i could do. Unfortunately they connected the 7th time with your husbands head."

    didds

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    Default Re: Failed Head Butt

    Paul Ringer.
    He trudg’d along unknowing what he sought,
    And whistled as he went, for want of thought.
    The Referee by John Dryden

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    Default Re: Failed Head Butt

    Quote Originally Posted by didds View Post
    I hear the points about what offense do you write on the form etc...

    But I feel the game is twisting itself in knots.

    "I'm sorry Mrs Bloggs that your husband will be a cabbage for the rest of his life. The previous 6 attempts by the opposition to stamp on his teammate's heads all missed and there was nothing i could do. Unfortunately they connected the 7th time with your husbands head."

    didds
    A deliberately exaggerated example makes your point well didds, the problem with the alternate approach is that its unworkable and unrealistic , unless the Horwill defence becomes the norm !

    I believe the primary skill of a good referee is judgement, and in many cases s/he needs to consider the temperature of the match and the intent of players which are all factors in foul play assessment.

    We can all find extremes to examine law interpretation, but all referees have to operate their own acceptability barometer.

    Personally I've rarely had an assessor comment that I'm too harsh or lenient, so I'm comfortable with my measurements....but its not a maths equation
    Last edited by Browner; 30-04-14 at 15:04.

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