Page 4 of 5 FirstFirst 12345 LastLast
Results 31 to 40 of 50

Thread: Failed Head Butt

      
  1. #31

    Referees in America
    thepercy's Avatar

    Soc/Assoc
    New York State Rugby Referees Society
    Grade
    Level 1
    Join Date
    21 Sep 13
    Posts
    707
    Thanks (Received)
    15
    Likes (Received)
    103

    Default Re: Failed Head Butt

    Quote Originally Posted by didds View Post
    I don;t doubt there is a document - but I don;t follow what you say above?

    of course there are actions in game of rugby that are "legal" within the confines of the game - a tackle being an obvious example. Perform a rugby tackle on someone in the high street and that IS assault. When we play rugby we accept that this otherwise illegal act is legal having chosen to participate in a game.

    Meanwhile, punching, kicking, stamping, headbutting, elbowing etc is not legal in rugby. Neither is it legal in the high street. Participants in a game of rugby are not accepting that being assaulted in these manners is part of the game.

    I am however struggling to think of any sort of assault that would happen in a game of rugby that is illegal in a game, but legal on the high street.


    didds
    Maybe, retaliation? Self-defense in the real world but not allowed in rugby.

  2. #32

    Referees in England


    Soc/Assoc
    None
    Grade
    Level 8 and Advisor
    Join Date
    27 Jan 11
    Posts
    1,065
    Thanks (Received)
    6
    Likes (Received)
    171

    Default Re: Failed Head Butt

    thepercy... good point!

    And ddds, thanks for a very useful set of insights.

  3. #33
    Banned

    Soc/Assoc
    n/a
    Grade
    < player
    Join Date
    20 Jan 12
    Posts
    6,000
    Thanks (Received)
    19
    Likes (Received)
    251

    Default Re: Failed Head Butt

    Quote Originally Posted by didds View Post
    That presumably wouldm be up to

    * the person attacked to report it
    * the police to decide whether a successful prosection is likely and "in the public interest" or somesuch.

    I was assaulted just over a year ago. the bloke was so drunk he was thouroughly ineffectual though he did rip my coat to shreds.

    It was assault and in front of about 100 witnesses.

    I didnt; report it to the police because I didn;t honestly think it was worthwhile pursuing. YMMV of course.

    had be broken my nose it might have been a different matter.

    In short the police only get involved on the whole if someone reports the assault. If there is a bit of "argy bargy" and/or "afters" and somebody wants to report such an assault they are perfectly at liberty to do so. The same as they are if it happens on a high street.

    If of course you think that having a head stamped on, or a nose broken by a headbutt is not worthy of reporting when it happens to you, that is of course your prerogative.

    didds
    OK, i hear your point.

  4. #34

    Advises in England
    OB..'s Avatar

    Soc/Assoc
    Glos & District
    Grade
    Adviser (grass roots)
    Join Date
    07 Oct 04
    Posts
    22,498
    Thanks (Received)
    108
    Likes (Received)
    1524

    Default Re: Failed Head Butt

    Volenti non fit injuria is the legal tag that says if you are aware of the risks, you can agree to accept them.
    Volenti only applies to the risk which a reasonable person would consider them as having assumed by their actions; thus a boxer consents to being hit, and to the injuries that might be expected from being hit, but does not consent to (for example) his opponent striking him with an iron bar, or punching him outside the usual terms of boxing.
    Wikipedia

    The defence has been raised (unsuccessfully) in cases concerning serious injury
    The Plaintiff (Claimant) was not volens to the risk of injury; he had only consented to the ordinary incidents of a game of rugby.
    Smoldon v Whitworth (spinal injury in a collapsed scrum)

    If you want to get legal please note that we are talking about "battery", which requires physical contact. In the phrase "assault and battery", assault covers such things as an attempted head butt, because you make the other person fear the contact. On the high street an attempted head butt would constitute an assault.
    He trudg’d along unknowing what he sought,
    And whistled as he went, for want of thought.
    The Referee by John Dryden

  5. #35

    Resident Club Coach
    didds's Avatar

    Soc/Assoc
    N/A
    Grade
    Club Coach
    Join Date
    27 Jan 04
    Posts
    9,548
    Thanks (Received)
    59
    Likes (Received)
    894

    Default Re: Failed Head Butt

    Quote Originally Posted by thepercy View Post
    Maybe, retaliation? Self-defense in the real world but not allowed in rugby.
    good call.


    and thanks for the legal niceties explained OB - cheers.

    didds

  6. #36
    Rugby Club Member

    Soc/Assoc
    None
    Grade
    Select Grade
    Join Date
    17 Oct 11
    Posts
    2,170
    Thanks (Received)
    17
    Likes (Received)
    227

    Default Re: Failed Head Butt

    Quote Originally Posted by thepercy View Post
    Maybe, retaliation? Self-defense in the real world but not allowed in rugby.
    Retaliation != self-defense, in the real world or the rugby field.

  7. #37

    Promises to Referee in France
    L'irlandais's Avatar

    Soc/Assoc
    CT Alsace-Lorraine
    Grade
    EdR + LCA
    Join Date
    11 May 10
    Posts
    4,252
    Thanks (Received)
    36
    Likes (Received)
    210

    Arrow Re: Failed Head Butt

    Quote Originally Posted by OB.. View Post
    Paul Ringer.
    Bit before I got involved in Rugby... This ESPN article says it was an elbow to the face (in the tackle) after the ball was gone. Would it have made any difference, if he'd elbowed the ball carrier in the face, had the tackle NOT been late? I don't think so.
    "We demand strict proof for opinions we dislike, but are satisfied with mere hints for what we’re inclined to accept."
    John Henry Newman

  8. #38
    Banned

    Soc/Assoc
    n/a
    Grade
    < player
    Join Date
    20 Jan 12
    Posts
    6,000
    Thanks (Received)
    19
    Likes (Received)
    251

    Default Re: Failed Head Butt

    Quote Originally Posted by L'irlandais View Post
    Bit before I got involved in Rugby... This ESPN article says it was an elbow to the face (in the tackle) after the ball was gone. Would it have made any difference, if he'd elbowed the ball carrier in the face, had the tackle NOT been late? I don't think so.
    35 penalties ( id love to know how long the ball was actually in play during this battle, my guess 16 mins ! )

    Oh........ the good old days !

  9. #39
    Moderator Attention - New Usergroup Required

    Soc/Assoc
    Danish Rugby Union
    Grade
    Level 8
    Join Date
    06 Jan 18
    Posts
    43
    Thanks (Received)
    1
    Likes (Received)
    8

    Default Re: Failed Head Butt

    Quote Originally Posted by crossref View Post
    the RFU may have its opinions -- but the RFU does not determine what actions are legal or illegal in Criminal Law.
    Technically no: if players assent to certain conduct by prior agreement then there is no recourse in law, as the reasonable person requirement would be that of a reasonable person in that situation.

  10. #40

    Referees in England


    Soc/Assoc
    --
    Grade
    Grassroots
    Join Date
    14 Sep 09
    Posts
    17,093
    Thanks (Received)
    135
    Likes (Received)
    1647

    Default Re: Failed Head Butt

    Quote Originally Posted by shnipvanwinkel View Post
    Technically no: if players assent to certain conduct by prior agreement then there is no recourse in law, as the reasonable person requirement would be that of a reasonable person in that situation.
    that's essentially true (I think it's a bit trickier and more subtle than the way you expressed it) - but that's because it's the way the Law works - it's not because the RFU have decreed it to be so.

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •