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Thread: Getting more people into become referees

      
  1. #21

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    Default Re: Getting more people into become referees

    Generally speaking our young referees are playing as well as refereeing, and both aspects benefit.

    I do hear gripes from older referees that these youngsters are being advanced at their expense, but often they have never seen them referee.

    Advancement/recognition is what many referees want, and the current grading system has lost a useful feature of the old one: to get from C1 to B3, you had to pass an exam, and give a minimum commitment. Many referees were content to remain at C1, perhaps getting the occasional B3 game. Nowadays, they see L9 to L8 as just one small step for refereeing kind. For my society at least, statistics show that up to L9, most referees work at or above their level, whereas above that it becomes competitive to get matches regularly at your level. This reflects the number of matches available at each level.
    He trudg’d along unknowing what he sought,
    And whistled as he went, for want of thought.
    The Referee by John Dryden

  2. #22
    Player or Coach ChrisR's Avatar

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    Default Re: Getting more people into become referees

    "But it's a lonely grind. I see the other referees if there's a tournament or an AGM. And that's it."

    The penalty of refereeing in a large rural area. Simon, what is your typical travel time to a match?

  3. #23

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    Default Re: Getting more people into become referees

    Quote Originally Posted by Toby Warren View Post

    Money doesn't fix that issue but if there was payment it might help - but the tax rates would mean many people get less than half the fee involved so the number would need to be reasonable.
    In our tax system, you do not need to pay tax on gratuities given associated with hobbies. It's an exemption. I think they figured out there would be much more lost on tax deductions for job related expenses (ie all the things you buy to referee plus travel expenses) than what they'd get by charging tax on the minor amount earnt as a hobby.

    Quote Originally Posted by TheBFG View Post
    back at the start of this thread think it was Dixie that said "if we pay refs they become accountable" or something like that and there is the problem I think. Going back a number of years wendyball refs weren't paid (at top levels) just given "expenses" then they became fulltime refs as their "job" and suddenly they're getting a slagging from most coaches in the post match interviews! If a player has a bad game he gets a roasting in the press, so why not the ref?

    We all go out to do our best, but be handing over a little brown envelope at the end of the game suddenly makes it a different issue.

    As it is now, we get our expense via the society through (WTR) the on-line booking system, no interaction with the clubs no issues over £'s, it's easy and causes no problems. I have never reffed for money and never will, that said if it changes in my "lifetime" I guess i'll have to review it

    Oh yes and we get free kit! (but that's due to a very generous sponsor!)
    I don't buy it that you're more accountable if you got paid, that's like saying because you get zero now that you can go out there and have zero accountability. You don't. You're accountable now. Plus I think if it's set up as a cost reimbursement per match rather than a payment for time and effort then that is more palatable. Obviously you have that system. We don't.
    Tell em it's Law 23 and smile

  4. #24

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    Default Re: Getting more people into become referees

    Warwickshire have a very successful young referees scheme that has been going for 3 or 4 years now, and both them, rugby and the Society have benefited.

    We run ELRA courses for young referees only, completion of which gets them straight onto the Warwickshire Young Whistlers Scheme. We then arrange games for them through schools and clubs junior sections. The young referees have a member of the society with them at ever fixture to safeguard their welfare, mentor them and just to be a friendly face. The schools don't get charged for the services of a young whistler, and the referee can claim expenses up to a maximum fee. They have their own shirts which they get FOC on completion of a set number of games.

    When they are old enough and when the Young Whistlers committee thinks they are good enough, they get transferred to adult games and eventually become full members of the society, as opposed to junior members.

    Its very popular, there is a waiting list for places, and the only thing that limits it is the number and availability of mentors.

    If you Google "Warwickshire Young Whistlers" you will find loads of praise for the initiative from far and wide.

    Link HERE

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  5. #25

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    Default Re: Getting more people into become referees

    Over here we are paid. We get a match fee direct from the club (size depends on the game level), and also generous travel expenses.

    The money is nice, but way over the top. And actually I think it ends up causing issues that put people off refereeing.
    (side note: We put up match fees by about 40% a year or 2 ago - no change at all in ref numbers).

    Issues it causes: We are seen as paid members of the Federation/Union. (Even though clubs pay us, and the Federation/Union only pays travel expenses). So we are expected to do all the admin. All the licence checks, all the match sheet checks, all the reporting, and the other stuff that would make more sense for others to do, but "the refs are paid" so make them do it, and make them responsible for it. And often this draws us into club v union politics/fights.

    While the money we get is nice, I (and many others) would happily give it up to get rid of all cr@p around it, and get back to just refereeing a game.

  6. #26

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    Default Re: Getting more people into become referees

    Quote Originally Posted by Phil E View Post
    Warwickshire have a very successful young referees scheme that has been going for 3 or 4 years now, and both them, rugby and the Society have benefited.
    Perhaps counter-intuitively, it appears that England's premier rugby team demands lower grammatical standards than a mid-tier Premiership football team! Good to see you are settling into Cockersville, Phil.
    Don't feed the pedant!

  7. #27

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    Default Re: Getting more people into become referees

    Quote Originally Posted by Dixie View Post
    Perhaps counter-intuitively, it appears that England's premier rugby team demands lower grammatical standards than a mid-tier Premiership football team! Good to see you are settling into Cockersville, Phil.
    If you want to debate grammar, and particularly 'the apostrophe', I suggest you pop over to the "Ladies World Cup" thread.
    You will have a ball!

    Went to the training ground yesterday and Cockers didn't shout at me, for the first time. I must be making progress.........although God knows what he will say when he finds out I am a referee!!
    Last edited by Phil E; 06-08-14 at 14:08.

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    Default Re: Getting more people into become referees

    Quote Originally Posted by Phil E View Post
    Warwickshire have a very successful young referees scheme that has been going for 3 or 4 years now, and both them, rugby and the Society have benefited.

    We run ELRA courses for young referees only, completion of which gets them straight onto the Warwickshire Young Whistlers Scheme. We then arrange games for them through schools and clubs junior sections. The young referees have a member of the society with them at ever fixture to safeguard their welfare, mentor them and just to be a friendly face. The schools don't get charged for the services of a young whistler, and the referee can claim expenses up to a maximum fee. They have their own shirts which they get FOC on completion of a set number of games.

    When they are old enough and when the Young Whistlers committee thinks they are good enough, they get transferred to adult games and eventually become full members of the society, as opposed to junior members.

    Its very popular, there is a waiting list for places, and the only thing that limits it is the number and availability of mentors.

    If you Google "Warwickshire Young Whistlers" you will find loads of praise for the initiative from far and wide.

    Link HERE
    I've seen this initiative 1st hand as a group of WYW (3x17yr olds if i recall correctly) were operating at a tourno i was at - at the end of last season, they were enthusiastic, assured and competent and (now green with envy!) fast & fit.... and our post tourno 'socialising' was all that is good about this aspect of the sport. Well done to WRFURS ...impressed.

  9. #29
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    Default Re: Getting more people into become referees

    Quote Originally Posted by Phil E View Post
    .......although God knows what he will say when he finds out I am a referee!!
    That might signal the end of verbal communications between you, cos he's unable to contain or disguise his scant regard for them ....

    As for
    . England's premier rugby team
    . u moved to landun ? :-)
    Last edited by Browner; 06-08-14 at 15:08.

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    Default Re: Getting more people into become referees

    Quote Originally Posted by FlipFlop View Post
    Over here we are paid. We get a match fee direct from the club (size depends on the game level), and also generous travel expenses.

    The money is nice, but way over the top. And actually I think it ends up causing issues that put people off refereeing.
    (side note: We put up match fees by about 40% a year or 2 ago - no change at all in ref numbers).

    Issues it causes: We are seen as paid members of the Federation/Union. (Even though clubs pay us, and the Federation/Union only pays travel expenses). So we are expected to do all the admin. All the licence checks, all the match sheet checks, all the reporting, and the other stuff that would make more sense for others to do, but "the refs are paid" so make them do it, and make them responsible for it. And often this draws us into club v union politics/fights.

    While the money we get is nice, I (and many others) would happily give it up to get rid of all cr@p around it, and get back to just refereeing a game.
    If your paid to manage a shop, u don't clean the windows or empty the litter or unload the supply truck ...... Slightly lower fee with someone else ( now affordable?) doing all the admin crap sounds like a general solution to that problem. Win win.

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