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Thread: Toulouse v Castres: your decision?

      
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    Default Toulouse v Castres: your decision?

    Interesting scenario arose in the first half of Toulouse v Castres tonight.

    Toulouse winger kicks forward (grubber, not in the air) and chases the ball which travels into the Castres 22. He somehow manages to be sliding on his knees on the wet surface when the next contact with the ball is made:

    The next contact is the same winger and the ball hits his thigh (ball has not been touched by anyone else after the kick) before bouncing forward off his thigh into the in-goal.

    There is a Toulouse support runner who is in front of the ball when the thigh contact is made, and the same support runner dots down to "score" the try.

    Referee does not allow the try and gives: a 5m scrum for a knock-on. Your thoughts?

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    Default Re: Toulouse v Castres: your decision?

    Based on that description, I would have thought the Toulouse support runner was offside.

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    Default Re: Toulouse v Castres: your decision?

    Offside. No try is the correct call.

    LAW 11 DEFINITIONS
    In general play a player is offside if the player is in front of a team-mate who is
    carrying the ball, or in front of a team-mate who last played the ball.



    irishref
    If you are going to suggest that since the ball touched the player by bouncing off his thigh, he didn't actually play it....

    General Definitions, page 7
    Played: The ball is played when it is touched by a player.
    Last edited by Ian_Cook; 22-08-14 at 21:08.
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    Default Re: Toulouse v Castres: your decision?

    Toby Flood starts at 10 for Stade.

    35 minutes of play on the clock : Black 15 kicks ahead for himself to collect. The ball goes forward off his knee as he struggles with the defender for position/possesion. Black14 then touches down in the opposition's in-goal area. The AR alerts the Ref to the "knock-on" & the try is not allowed. The giant screens replayed the action moments later, suggest that Black14 was (ever so slightly) off side. So right decision, as Ian said, but poorly handled by both match officials ; who seemed so sure of themselves (when calling it a "Knock-on" which it clearly wasn't!) on the spur of the moment. They could have asked the video ref, but choose not to. (Paraphrased from "RugbyRama" live blog)
    Last edited by L'irlandais; 22-08-14 at 21:08.
    I suppose it's like the ticking crocodile, isn't it? Time is chasing after all of us.” ― J.M. Barrie

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    Default Re: Toulouse v Castres: your decision?

    Both the AR and the ref were in poor position to make a spot on decision on the knock-on. Play was so close to the in-goal that it merited letting it play and then ask for the TMO.

    As for the offside, Canal+ images showed Huget? (or was him Médard?) to be on-line with the play but I'd say it was quite difficult to determine if it was onside or offside. Depending on the replay I was inclined to one or the other.

    On the other hand, the YC+RC late in the game were well merited.
    Sorry about my English, as it isn't my mother tonge.

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    Default Re: Toulouse v Castres: your decision?

    I haven't seen the action was going purely on what the OP described.
    "You can Google for information, but you can't Google for understanding"
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    Default Re: Toulouse v Castres: your decision?

    I know. I was just adding some info and my POV.

    Had the ref asked for TMO and then called PK for offside, I wouldn't complain as it seemed a 50-50 call depending on the angle of replay. But it was no knock-on and neither the ref nor the AR were in line with the play but (IIRC) 4-7 meters back, making it quite difficult for them to be sure.

    I'm no fan of asking for TMO's help every time a score is made, but I think this was the real opportunity to let the play develop and then review. Play was so fast that I thought the whistle was for awarding the try rather than the knock-on.
    Sorry about my English, as it isn't my mother tonge.

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    Default Re: Toulouse v Castres: your decision?

    Hi guys,

    Wasn't meaning to suggest anything by the post, just tried my best to describe a situation as I watched the game live. I am interested in the referee's knock-on call, since the ball did not touch hand or arm.

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    Default Re: Toulouse v Castres: your decision?

    Without the benefit of a TMO or instant replay it takes a brave ref to sometimes not call a knock on when to many on the field and the sidelines it looks a lot line one.

    I had an incident that while it was the right call got me into a lengthy debate with one of the coaches.
    Red team is playing into the sun when Blue team kicks a high up and under that doesn't go very far. Red 15 has the sun in his eyes so as he goes to shield his eyes and then catch it the ball hits his stomach/thigh but definitely doesn't touch his arms or hands at all. ( I was standing a few meters away). The ball rebounds off him and goes a good 15 meters forward. Everyone stops expecting me to blow my whistle but I say "play on, no knock on". Red 15 races forward, scoops up the ball and scores.

    Blue coach was livid, even after I explained the call and showed hime the knock on law he was insistent that it should have been called a knock on. Other refs even said they would have called it a knock on because they wouldnt have wanted to deal with the backlash.

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    Default Re: Toulouse v Castres: your decision?

    Quote Originally Posted by Guyseep View Post
    I had an incident that while it was the right call got me into a lengthy debate with one of the coaches.
    Red team is playing into the sun when Blue team kicks a high up and under that doesn't go very far. Red 15 has the sun in his eyes so as he goes to shield his eyes and then catch it the ball hits his stomach/thigh but definitely doesn't touch his arms or hands at all. ( I was standing a few meters away). The ball rebounds off him and goes a good 15 meters forward. Everyone stops expecting me to blow my whistle but I say "play on, no knock on". Red 15 races forward, scoops up the ball and scores.

    Blue coach was livid, even after I explained the call and showed hime the knock on law he was insistent that it should have been called a knock on. Other refs even said they would have called it a knock on because they wouldnt have wanted to deal with the backlash.
    I have to admit : if someone is trying to catch a ball, fails, and it spills forwards then I am going to call a knock on. Judging that the ball happened to miss his arms is too subtle, I reckon all 30 players on the pitch are expecting knock-on

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