Page 3 of 3 FirstFirst 123
Results 21 to 29 of 29

Thread: killing own player in lineout

      
  1. #21

    Referees in Australia
    The Fat's Avatar

    Soc/Assoc
    FNCRRA
    Grade
    L1 Ref & L2 AR
    Join Date
    15 Jul 10
    Posts
    4,204
    Thanks (Received)
    51
    Likes (Received)
    445

    Default Re: killing own player in lineout

    Quote Originally Posted by crossref View Post
    Ian's post above #4 has the Law references.
    Law 19 - Not lowering your own player is specifically = FK.
    Law 10 - general restriction on lifting players and lettig them fall on heads = PK
    Law 19 doesn't specifically deal with bringing your own jumper safely, only when they must bring their jumper to the ground. That's why we are now getting guys posting what they have done/seen done and how it was justified.
    When you are dead, you don't know that you are dead. It is difficult only for the others.
    It's the same when you are stupid.

  2. #22

    Referees in England
    Dixie's Avatar

    Soc/Assoc
    Retired from Berkshire
    Grade
    8
    Join Date
    26 Oct 06
    Posts
    12,770
    Thanks (Received)
    30
    Likes (Received)
    330

    Default Re: killing own player in lineout

    Quote Originally Posted by Dickie E View Post
    I don't think I would penalise a team for accidentally injuring their own player.
    In the Englan v South Africa game, Dylan Harley was YC'd for stamping on a Saffer after the TMO suggested SW might like to reconsider his original limitation to a penalty award. Are you saying that if the player on the ground had been an England player, and DH had acted in the same way in the belief that he was stamping on a Saffer, that would not even be a penalty? If not, then presumably you are arguing that Law 10 (with the exception of 10.4(j) Ian so carefully notes) only intends to outlaw play that is dangerous to an opponent. Consequently, it is perfectly legal to punch the living daylights out of your own scrum half after he gives away a simple interception try; or to trip your own winger in the act of scoring, as he has taken the place of your mate who has been left on the bench this week. For me, 10.4 really ought to use the word "player" instead of "opponent" throughout. It exists to define the limits of acceptable play in the interests of a safe game; I doubt the iRB would feel comfortable asserting that you are at liberty to conduct dangerous operations against your own side when the LoTG specifically recognises those actions as being beyond the pale when performed against a player wearing a different coloured jersey.
    Don't feed the pedant!

  3. #23

    Referees in England
    TheBFG's Avatar

    Soc/Assoc
    Somerset
    Grade
    Level 6
    Join Date
    14 Apr 08
    Posts
    4,384
    Thanks (Received)
    22
    Likes (Received)
    215

    Default Re: killing own player in lineout

    Quote Originally Posted by Ian_Cook View Post
    19.10 OPTIONS AVAILABLE IN A LINEOUT
    (g) Lowering a Player. Players who support a jumping team-mate must lower that player to
    the ground as soon as the ball has been won by a player of either team.
    Sanction: Free Kick on the 15-metre line
    I would have thought this law was aimed at stopping teams from keeping a player in the air and potentially walking down the pitch with him up there, with the defenders unable to do anything about it?

    As for the OP, I'd be having a word with the capt and his side not being such d!ck$ and looking after their own players
    __________________________________________________ _______

    happy with this posting

  4. #24

    Referees in New Zealand
    Ian_Cook's Avatar

    Soc/Assoc
    Retired player and referee
    Grade
    Level 2
    Join Date
    12 Jul 05
    Posts
    13,370
    Thanks (Received)
    113
    Likes (Received)
    1530

    Default Re: killing own player in lineout

    Quote Originally Posted by TheBFG View Post
    I would have thought this law was aimed at stopping teams from keeping a player in the air and potentially walking down the pitch with him up there, with the defenders unable to do anything about it?

    As for the OP, I'd be having a word with the capt and his side not being such d!ck$ and looking after their own players
    You should have read the rest of the post you quoted that from. Its more or less what I said.

  5. #25

    Referees in Australia
    menace's Avatar

    Soc/Assoc
    ACTRRA
    Grade
    Level 2
    Join Date
    20 Nov 09
    Posts
    3,578
    Thanks (Received)
    61
    Likes (Received)
    498
    Blog Entries
    1

    Default Re: killing own player in lineout

    I agree. But surely it's contrary to good sportsmanship to drop your own team mate on his back/head - whether negligent or deliberate? (I'm using negligent implying that it's reasonable they should be aware that their action could cause injury)
    Tell em it's Law 23 and smile

  6. #26
    Rugby Club Member

    Soc/Assoc
    None
    Grade
    Select Grade
    Join Date
    17 Oct 11
    Posts
    2,170
    Thanks (Received)
    17
    Likes (Received)
    227

    Default Re: killing own player in lineout

    Quote Originally Posted by Dickie E View Post
    No & no. Not even if recklessly.

    aside: If careless shows lack of care, does reckless show lack of reck?

    Indeed. Not a word you hear often:

    http://www.thefreedictionary.com/reck
    You reckon?

  7. #27
    Rugby Club Member

    Soc/Assoc
    None
    Grade
    Select Grade
    Join Date
    17 Oct 11
    Posts
    2,170
    Thanks (Received)
    17
    Likes (Received)
    227

    Default Re: killing own player in lineout

    Quote Originally Posted by Ian_Cook View Post
    If the rationale for pinging a player under 19.10(g), who doesn't support his team-mate in that situation, is Dangerous Play, then why is it only a FK?
    Is there also a subsidiary rationale; that having gained the (potential) advantage of putting your player up there, you must take the time to get him back down again - rather than just dropping him because if you don't you won't get to the oppo BC in time to tackle him?

  8. #28
    Banned

    Soc/Assoc
    n/a
    Grade
    < player
    Join Date
    20 Jan 12
    Posts
    6,000
    Thanks (Received)
    19
    Likes (Received)
    251

    Default Re: killing own player in lineout

    Quote Originally Posted by The Fat View Post
    Law 19 doesn't specifically deal with bringing your own jumper safely, only when they must bring their jumper to the ground. That's why we are now getting guys posting what they have done/seen done and how it was justified.
    I agree that the thrust of 19.10(g) is to not allow a player to be 'held in the air ' ( under protection from being tackled) for a protracted period of time, whilst opposition all await either the ball release or his eventual landing. This is a technical lineout offence and hense why its only a FK. It could even be considered as trying to encourage ( contrive? Draw?) The opposition into offending in some way.

    10.4(j) is a law to ensure player safety, and I see no logical reason why it doesn't equally cover teammates as well as opposition, in the same way that if a player stamped on or punched a teammate then he should be sanctioned also.

    In essence, all 'danger/player safety' laws apply to ALL players, irrespective of shirt colour.

    In my matches, if the catcher is lifted and held whilst still retaining the ball the I shout "play it "( not "use it" - which infers 5s to do so) ..... If they don't react to my management guidance and then its a FK , and I'd add that rarely is anyone surprised by the FK.

  9. #29

    Referees in Australia
    Dickie E's Avatar

    Soc/Assoc
    VRRA
    Grade
    Level 2
    Join Date
    19 Jan 07
    Posts
    12,691
    Thanks (Received)
    120
    Likes (Received)
    1443

    Default Re: killing own player in lineout

    Quote Originally Posted by Dixie View Post
    In the Englan v South Africa game, ... against a player wearing a different coloured jersey.
    I'm sure the distinction between deliberate and accidental is not lost on you.

    A better parallel would be a player who attempts to fly hack the ball but as he does so a team mate dives on the ball copping a boot in the ribs for his troubles.
    I, for one, like Roman numerals

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •