Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst 123 LastLast
Results 11 to 20 of 27

Thread: Professional foul/intentional infringement?

      
  1. #11

    Referees in Australia
    Dickie E's Avatar

    Soc/Assoc
    VRRA
    Grade
    Level 2
    Join Date
    19 Jan 07
    Posts
    12,399
    Thanks (Received)
    110
    Likes (Received)
    1313

    Default Re: Professional foul/intentional infringement?

    Quote Originally Posted by chrismtl View Post
    Here's an example according to your logic...there's a breakdown about 2-3 meters behind an "injured" player (he's in an offside position). He then stands up, takes 2 steps, grabs the ball and passes it to one of his onside teammates. So according to you, this is fine and should be allowed to happen? What's the difference between that and the play I just posted except for it being more obvious.
    In that case he is offside so liable to penalty - same as in the OP.

    That is why I suggested taking the offside out of the discussion for a moment and just consider the act of an injured player rejoining the game.
    I, for one, like Roman numerals

  2. #12

    Referees in Australia
    Dickie E's Avatar

    Soc/Assoc
    VRRA
    Grade
    Level 2
    Join Date
    19 Jan 07
    Posts
    12,399
    Thanks (Received)
    110
    Likes (Received)
    1313

    Default Re: Professional foul/intentional infringement?

    Quote Originally Posted by chrismtl View Post
    Here's an example according to your logic...there's a breakdown about 2-3 meters behind an "injured" player (he's in an offside position). He then stands up, takes 2 steps, grabs the ball and passes it to one of his onside teammates. So according to you, this is fine and should be allowed to happen? What's the difference between that and the play I just posted except for it being more obvious.
    hey, chrismtl, reading your phraseology it seems there is some venom in there: "accoding to your logic", "according to you", etc. What has brought that on? I'm not expousing a view, just looking for enlightenment.

    If I ask "why can't a rooster lay an egg?" don't take that to mean that I think a rooster can lay an egg
    I, for one, like Roman numerals

  3. #13

    Referees in England


    Soc/Assoc
    --
    Grade
    Grassroots
    Join Date
    14 Sep 09
    Posts
    17,694
    Thanks (Received)
    137
    Likes (Received)
    1743

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Dickie E:287236
    Forget about the offside for the moment. Why can't an injured player rejoin the game as & when he feels fit to do so?
    It seems to me that, if he is not offside, an injured player is entitled to get to his feet at any time and join in the play.

  4. #14

    Referees in England


    Soc/Assoc
    South Yorkshire
    Grade
    National Panel
    Join Date
    08 Aug 05
    Posts
    1,514
    Thanks (Received)
    7
    Likes (Received)
    72

    Default Re: Professional foul/intentional infringement?

    Quote Originally Posted by chrismtl View Post
    I'd give the illegal neck roll on Samoa 9 to avoid the issue of whether he's offside or not....

  5. #15

    Referees in England
    Dixie's Avatar

    Soc/Assoc
    Retired from Berkshire
    Grade
    8
    Join Date
    26 Oct 06
    Posts
    12,770
    Thanks (Received)
    30
    Likes (Received)
    330

    Default Re: Professional foul/intentional infringement?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dickie E View Post
    Forget about the offside for the moment. Why can't an injured player rejoin the game as & when he feels fit to do so?
    Good question. I think there may be a difference between a player down clutching an ankle, and a player receiving treatment from a guy with a bag and sponge - though that is obviously not set out anywhere. With the latter, we've got extraneous people on the field. The ref would normally stop play for that, but we give licence to a medic to enter tfield of play in the interests of player safety. All on the pitch treat that scenario as nothing - just an area of bad ground that if play gets too close we'll stop. Otherwise carry on. With players not considering it necessary to bring the "nothing" into their tactical analysis, it would be inequitable to allow the player on the ground to take part in the play while hiding behind his sponge man.

    I'd see this as contrary to good sportsmanship. YC
    Don't feed the pedant!

  6. #16

    Referees in England


    Soc/Assoc
    --
    Grade
    Grassroots
    Join Date
    14 Sep 09
    Posts
    17,694
    Thanks (Received)
    137
    Likes (Received)
    1743

    Default Re: Professional foul/intentional infringement?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dixie View Post
    Good question. I think there may be a difference between a player down clutching an ankle, and a player receiving treatment from a guy with a bag and sponge - though that is obviously not set out anywhere. With the latter, we've got extraneous people on the field. The ref would normally stop play for that, but we give licence to a medic to enter tfield of play in the interests of player safety. All on the pitch treat that scenario as nothing - just an area of bad ground that if play gets too close we'll stop. Otherwise carry on. With players not considering it necessary to bring the "nothing" into their tactical analysis, it would be inequitable to allow the player on the ground to take part in the play while hiding behind his sponge man.

    I'd see this as contrary to good sportsmanship. YC
    obviously the player on the ground would have to get to his feet, you wouldn't allow grab at the ankle from a prone position.

    if he is recovered are we saying he can only rejoin the play if the ball is a certain distance away? I don't think that can be right.
    Last edited by crossref; 20-11-14 at 15:11.

  7. #17
    Player or Coach ChrisR's Avatar

    Soc/Assoc
    None
    Grade
    Select Grade
    Join Date
    14 Jul 10
    Posts
    3,227
    Thanks (Received)
    33
    Likes (Received)
    320

    Default Re: Professional foul/intentional infringement?

    I think it should be blown up and a scrum to Red as the ball enters the treatment area and before the player gets up to make the tackle.

    As to the off-sides question: Even if a ruck had formed the "injured" player would have been put on-sides by the opponents passing the ball.

  8. #18

    Referees in Canada
    chrismtl's Avatar

    Soc/Assoc
    AARQ
    Grade
    Select Grade
    Join Date
    14 Sep 13
    Posts
    202
    Thanks (Received)
    9
    Likes (Received)
    26

    Default Re: Professional foul/intentional infringement?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dickie E View Post
    In that case he is offside so liable to penalty - same as in the OP.

    That is why I suggested taking the offside out of the discussion for a moment and just consider the act of an injured player rejoining the game.
    I have no issue with an injured player rejoining a game at any time whatsoever as long as he does so without infringing the laws in the process. It happens all the time where a player is down for a bit of open play, then gets up, gets back to his teams defensive line and resumes play. Sure, he was offside for a bit, but he wasn't affecting the play and therefore his offside is immaterial. My OP was purely that in this situation there should have been a YC, right? My issue is with an injured player in an offside position getting up, making a tackle and lying back down.

    As for the intent of my post, it had nothing to do with venom or personal attacks. It was just the way I understood your post. It seemed like you thought there was nothing wrong with the infringement. I therefore went ahead and set a situation where it seemed you would have thought that there would be no issue but that would have refs scratching their heads if it was allowed to happen. Clearly I incorrectly interpreted your statement and if you were offended, I apologize.

  9. #19

    Referees in England


    Soc/Assoc
    --
    Grade
    Grassroots
    Join Date
    14 Sep 09
    Posts
    17,694
    Thanks (Received)
    137
    Likes (Received)
    1743

    Default Re: Professional foul/intentional infringement?

    Quote Originally Posted by chrismtl View Post
    My issue is with an injured player in an offside position getting up, making a tackle and lying back down.
    .
    The injury is a red herring
    - if he's offside, then he can't make a tackle : PK and YC
    - if he's onside then he can get to his feet and then make a tackle.
    Last edited by crossref; 20-11-14 at 17:11.

  10. #20

    Referees in Canada
    chrismtl's Avatar

    Soc/Assoc
    AARQ
    Grade
    Select Grade
    Join Date
    14 Sep 13
    Posts
    202
    Thanks (Received)
    9
    Likes (Received)
    26

    Default Re: Professional foul/intentional infringement?

    Quote Originally Posted by crossref View Post
    The injury is a red herring
    - if he's offside, then he can't make a tackle : PK and YC
    - if he's onside then he can get to his feet and then make a tackle.
    If there's a player a few meters offside and being lazy retreating, you rarely see a YC. The issue is that the player was on the ground for a while and while I agree that the injury is not the only thing to look at in this situation I would, however, say it's an important factor to look at. The player was clearly not capable of taking part in play, was in an offside position and removed a potential chance at a break or open play. If players got a YC every time they were offside, we'd be playing short quite a bit.

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •