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Thread: Two cards.

      
  1. #1
    Player or Coach spikeno10's Avatar

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    Default Two cards.

    Sunday morning refereeing a Colts game. Muddy conditions and raining hard throughout.
    About 20 mins in a hard tackle on red 8 from Blue 13, man and ball and driven into the ground.
    Initial contact was the ball but arm moved upwards from there, nothing much in it from my point of view.
    Red 8 offloaded ball but then reacted to the tackler, not a punch but shoves and the like.
    Results in mass run in, handbags and lots of whistle blowing from me.
    Players separate themselves and I call captains to me. Red 8 is the captain.
    Explained that it would be a penalty against Red for the reaction. Dismissed both coaches from the pitch who had come on with water "to calm the boys down".
    Two phases of play later at a scrum I notice two of the centres throwing remarks at each other, "I'm going to smash you", etc. Both had been involved in the flash point early.
    I broke the scrum up asked the captains to join me and gave both centres a YC for "unsportsmanlike play" - no other issues in the game after that.
    Both coaches seemed happy enough.
    Question is was that two harsh or should someone have gone at the flash point?
    Appreciate any feedback.
    I'm just a coach at a club who referees when asked, mainly youth games.
    ------------
    spike

    Mr Carling had a point......

  2. #2
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    Default Re: Two cards.

    Game was "simmering" nicely. Yo uused a management tool to remove the heat from the situation. Your remedy worked and the game went without further incident. Sounds good to me.

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    Default Re: Two cards.

    I think given you had no more issues then it appears to be the correct call. Would you have sent Red 8 and Blue 13 from the intiial dust up or a different pair? In the circumstances and the fact you had no further issues I'd suggest you did ok.

    I had a dust up behind me on Saturday (L8 Leagues) when I turned to find Red 12 holding down White 6 about to let one go. A loud blast turned it into a sort of grab for his head gear and he pushed White 6's head back into the mud. Both captains and both handbaggers to me - small lecture and a YC each. This was on 26 mins and White 6 had already gven away two PKs for not rolling so I reconciled his card in my mind as probably being due

    Both returned just before half time and I reminded both not to anything daft enough to warrent another YC and an automatic ban.

    Like you no further issues other than a small handbags right on Full Time which the final whistle turned into mutual handshaking and back patting.

    If you can cope with U18s testosterone and the pissing contests that accompany the games then you obviously have a reasonably full toolkit of management techniques. Clamping down on sledging whether by YC or threat of is a must at U18 and lower IME.

    Good result - well done.
    Along came Lou with old baboon and said I recognise that smell. That smells like seven layers. That beaver eats Taco Bell....- Claypool, LaLonde & Alexander 1995

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    Default Re: Two cards.

    "throwing remarks " is not a yellow otherwise we have 3 a side but it did diffuse the situation and I doubt they verbal again .

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    Default Re: Two cards.

    Quote Originally Posted by spikeno10 View Post
    Sunday morning refereeing a Colts game. Muddy conditions and raining hard throughout.
    About 20 mins in a hard tackle on red 8 from Blue 13, man and ball and driven into the ground.
    Initial contact was the ball but arm moved upwards from there, nothing much in it from my point of view.
    Red 8 offloaded ball but then reacted to the tackler, not a punch but shoves and the like.
    Results in mass run in, handbags and lots of whistle blowing from me.
    Players separate themselves and I call captains to me. Red 8 is the captain.
    Explained that it would be a penalty against Red for the reaction. Dismissed both coaches from the pitch who had come on with water "to calm the boys down".
    Two phases of play later at a scrum I notice two of the centres throwing remarks at each other, "I'm going to smash you", etc. Both had been involved in the flash point early.
    I broke the scrum up asked the captains to join me and gave both centres a YC for "unsportsmanlike play" - no other issues in the game after that.
    Both coaches seemed happy enough.
    Question is was that two harsh or should someone have gone at the flash point?
    Appreciate any feedback.
    I'm just a coach at a club who referees when asked, mainly youth games.
    U19/18 brings a special set of challenges.

    Had similar on saturday, following a shoving handbags on 10mins I asked both captains to go and 'cool' their players down as repeats won't to go unpunished. They both appeared to oblige in their huddle.

    25s later, #12 flung a petulant backhander toward an opponent ( didn't catch him though). "Capt, this player clearly wasn't respecting your warning 30s ago = YC issued. , ONE of US will get control of your teams discipline, you had the 1st opportunity, if you don't then I will ! - clear? ... Yes sir!(followed by a proclaimed bollocking....lads cut out the afters - just play rugby)

    Not another handbags during the match.

    Sorted.
    My advice is always give the responsibility to the captain, they are his players & they disrespect/ignore him.
    Last edited by Browner; 24-11-14 at 16:11.

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    Default Re: Two cards.

    Quote Originally Posted by crammond1964 View Post
    "throwing remarks " is not a yellow otherwise we have 3 a side but it did diffuse the situation and I doubt they verbal again .
    Sledging is NOT acceptable and can ruin a game so I clamp down on it as soon as it starts. If we have to play 3-a-side then so be it. I have no wish to spend 80 mins in the middle of 30 people being unnecessarily unpleasant to each other.
    Doucement le matin, pas trop vite le soir!

  7. #7

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    Default Re: Two cards.

    Quote Originally Posted by spikeno10 View Post
    Sunday morning refereeing a Colts game. Muddy conditions and raining hard throughout.
    About 20 mins in a hard tackle on red 8 from Blue 13, man and ball and driven into the ground.
    Initial contact was the ball but arm moved upwards from there, nothing much in it from my point of view.
    Red 8 offloaded ball but then reacted to the tackler, not a punch but shoves and the like.
    Results in mass run in, handbags and lots of whistle blowing from me.
    Players separate themselves and I call captains to me. Red 8 is the captain.
    Explained that it would be a penalty against Red for the reaction. Dismissed both coaches from the pitch who had come on with water "to calm the boys down".
    Two phases of play later at a scrum I notice two of the centres throwing remarks at each other, "I'm going to smash you", etc. Both had been involved in the flash point early.
    I broke the scrum up asked the captains to join me and gave both centres a YC for "unsportsmanlike play" - no other issues in the game after that.
    Both coaches seemed happy enough.
    Question is was that two harsh or should someone have gone at the flash point?
    Appreciate any feedback.
    I'm just a coach at a club who referees when asked, mainly youth games.
    I can see why you would want to try and stamp out the sledging and cut off any hassle before it began. However to break up the scrum and call in both players and captains to YC the players in question is a bit far for me. I would be inclined to speak to each captain when I could casually in downtime and remind them that they must control their players.

    The reason I say that is by a) stopping the game and b) publicly calling in players from a way away you are setting out a stall that you may get stuck under. Say for example you YC the 2 players and 2 phases later there is a grappling session and players get involved with eachother. You are now going to be under pressure to produce a RC both from players and from supporters. If sledging after the little dust up is a YC then as far as the players and supporters are concerned any more messing after that MUST be a red.

    Players may sledge but if they do I remind them that I am aware of what they are saying and am watching them so if they get up to anything I'll be right there! If you referee at higher level 19s/20s or what we call in Ireland J1(all Ireland league qualifying division) and Senior the players will sledge eachother and they will push you. Often times they will up the temperature very quickly and at those times you will need to be the one who is keeping it all calm. Talk to the players of there is a dust up, warn the captains but if it is heated reserve the cards for clear cut offences. Like I said a YC for sledging may well force you to RC a player for something you would otherwise YC or manage away.
    Award the try under 22.4(g) and put on your riot gear!

  8. #8

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    Default Re: Two cards.

    Agree with the other posters. It's all about the controlling aspect and the management of it which becomes easier the more reffing you do. But learning to put it all back on the captain is a great call, certainly takes the pressure from you. Good call I reckon.

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