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Thread: Prop suicide. SArefs

      
  1. #11

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    Default Re: Prop suicide. SArefs

    In France at the lower levels, a scrum cannot be reset. There is either a PK or FK for an offence, or the putting in team is given the FK. In this case, they may not elect a scrum.

    As OB has stated - a FK is fairly toothless. But the ball is back in play.

    But then their engagement sequence is Crouch - Engage - Stop - Play. With the Stop enforced.

  2. #12
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    Default Re: Prop suicide. SArefs

    Quote Originally Posted by didds View Post
    which is exactly why the attackers do have something to gain from a collapse. ie the hope that they will receive a PK or whatever in the refs mistaken belief it was the defending scrums fault.

    didds

    didds
    And as Brian Moore has often said; it might happen thart way but it will be very rare. front rows want to destroy their oppos, when that are dominant. You want to drive them back quickly and a long way. If they collapse or go up under pressure then there is the evidence of YOUR power.

    If you drive them back they are likely to offend so why risk getting caught? 999,999 out of 1,000,000 you'd be wrong to ping the attacking (if it is going forward / dominant) scrum.

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    Default Re: Prop suicide. SArefs

    I assume this bit is a typo:

    The Glasgow loosehead bound on the Bath tighthead's upper arm
    and

    the Bath tighthead bound on the Glasgow loosehead's upper arm.



    The Glasgow loosehead's arm formed a vee facing downwards. That is where the collapsing started.

  4. #14
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    Default Re: Prop suicide. SArefs

    Quote Originally Posted by Pegleg View Post
    And as Brian Moore has often said; it might happen thart way but it will be very rare. front rows want to destroy their oppos, when that are dominant. You want to drive them back quickly and a long way. If they collapse or go up under pressure then there is the evidence of YOUR power.

    If you drive them back they are likely to offend so why risk getting caught? 999,999 out of 1,000,000 you'd be wrong to ping the attacking (if it is going forward / dominant) scrum.
    Dominant White scrum gets a nudge on, but not enough to drive their Green opponents completely off the ball, they retain untidy possession and 9 is about to extract the ball from the scrum ......

    If White now collapse, then its likely most ' observers' will say that Green dropped it to avoid going backwards.

  5. #15

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    Default Re: Prop suicide. SArefs

    It is so distressing to see this issue return to the game after there was so much improvement last season. Last year, the elite refs were very hot on crooked feeds and early shoves. What's more, they really enforced the "ear-to-ear" mantra, and the destabilizing hit was essentially removed from the game. This year, crooked feeds are back with a vengeance (I'm not sure I recall one being pinged, even though the refs make a great show of crouching down to observe the - now crooked - feed), and refs seem to have become obsessed with the phrase "keep your space", essentially asking the front rows to be a bit further away and thus encouraging a bit more of a hit, which inevitably leads to more instability and more wrestling for dominance pre-ball. It is such an incredibly simple fix - and it was working! Of course there wasn't a complete sea change, but week by week it was getting a little better. I simply do not understand why all the progress has been abandoned. For what it's worth, I still referee by last season's approach!

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    Default Re: Prop suicide. SArefs

    Good job Jamaica don't play England then, you'd soon be struck off the list, that is if fear of allignment doesn't get you first !!!

    What about if resets were just confined to history & just abolished?, instead adopt a mentality of CNO ( Culprit Not Obvious ) = FK

    Defending sides would be more incentivised to stay legal, and team in possession would have to do something C&O to reverse this thinking.

    ???

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    Default Re: Prop suicide. SArefs

    Quote Originally Posted by Browner View Post
    Dominant White scrum gets a nudge on, but not enough to drive their Green opponents completely off the ball, they retain untidy possession and 9 is about to extract the ball from the scrum ......

    If White now collapse, then its likely most ' observers' will say that Green dropped it to avoid going backwards.

    Of course it happens but that way round is so rare as to be unlikely.

    Of course what do front row forwards know abourt the front row?

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Browner View Post
    Dominant White scrum gets a nudge on, but not enough to drive their Green opponents completely off the ball, they retain untidy possession and 9 is about to extract the ball from the scrum ......

    If White now collapse, then its likely most ' observers' will say that Green dropped it to avoid going backwards.

    Of course it happens but that way round is so rare as to be unlikely.

    Of course what do front row forwards know abourt the front row?

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    Default Re: Prop suicide. SArefs

    Quote Originally Posted by Dave Sherwin View Post
    ...This year, crooked feeds are back with a vengeance (I'm not sure I recall one being pinged, even though the refs make a great show of crouching down to observe the - now crooked - feed),,,

    We had a pro 12 game early on that had a crooked feed pinged...





    ...after 77 minutes!

    You could not make it up.

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    Default Re: Prop suicide. SArefs

    Quote Originally Posted by Pegleg View Post
    We had a pro 12 game early on that had a crooked feed pinged...





    ...after 77 minutes!

    You could not make it up.
    Cmon Pegleg, give the ref a chance to completely exhaust his full suite of player coaxings & pleadings first !

    On a more serious note some of the scrum completion stats that I've heard floating around beggar belief, and the Glasgow game isnt the worst.

    Maybe the 'equation' problem reads something like.....

    Complexity + Intent + consequence x reward x ref Penalty count fears + likely coach criticism = current position ?????

    Rugby League must be chuckling at prop suicide forewarnings, their scrum 'farce' meant the previously great centre Ellery Hanley could end up playing 2nd Row !

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    Default Re: Prop suicide. SArefs

    Quote Originally Posted by Pegleg View Post

    Of course what do front row forwards know about the front row?
    Ahh ha , yep their personal micro match has always been at the forefront of their importance, way beyond the ' restart' intentions of the lawmakers..

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