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Thread: Sharks vs Crusaders - 3 yellows and a red

      
  1. #41

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    Default Re: Sharks vs Crusaders - 3 yellows and a red

    Quote Originally Posted by Phil E View Post
    I thought the referee and his team did an excellent job of spotting these offences and all of them were spot on.

    Ref' kicking the ball away: as he said to the Red Captain "you would want the same if it was the other way round" (or words to that effect).
    Phil, the issue I have with that last YC is that the offence was immaterial. SB said that White were denied the opportunity of a QT. I would agree if Nadolo had been at or near the mark when he kicked it away but he wasn't. The opportunity for a QT never existed; the ball was in Nadolo's hands 15 metres away from the mark when the whistle went and no White players made any attempt to chase him for the ball. Even if Nadolo had stopped and put the ball on the ground, White still would not have had the opportunity take it quickly.


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    Default Re: Sharks vs Crusaders - 3 yellows and a red

    Quote Originally Posted by Blower View Post
    The fact it took a second card for the same thing says that they do need to be nannied. The message sent was not strong enough the first time. You can call it a captains error in not sending the message to his players but the SB could have forced Read to do something more.

    Fool me once shame on you, fool me twice shame on me. Refs are not responsible for the actions of players but it's their duty to effect correct inputs in order to adjust player behavior on the field of play.

    Any eejit can blow 35 penalties in a match and flash 10 cards. The best in the business are the best because they fundamentally have lower legitimate counts in these areas.
    Only a complete numbskull would have realised that having seen a teammate YC'd for a shoulder charge at a BC would mean similar sanctioning for a similar foul.

    All players amended their fouling, without major further highlighting by SB after the 2nd YC which proves numbnuts was capable
    Of doing it after the 1st, any failing ownership is on the captains shoulders not the referees. Oh....., & next week they will all start their next match with a clean slate - right??? & all the warnings about fouling in their previous rugby lives can be erased because its the referees duty to prevent them from offending from the start of their next match , sorry buddy but I'll never agree with this conceptual thinking , they all know that shoulder charging a BC is illegal, now, yesterday, last week and next week it will be as well.

    If you are to extrapolate your argument further then SB should perhaps be reprimanded (demoted) for allowing the players to become so ill disciplined , which to me is bonkers thinking .... The players reap what they sow, and any unhappy coach should consider his ability to influence his players.

    On that note, giving a mitigation credit to a player for off field " state of mind " .....really????, surely this was all considered/factored in when the head coach selected him !! What a load of crap.

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    Default Re: Sharks vs Crusaders - 3 yellows and a red

    Quote Originally Posted by Ian_Cook View Post
    Phil, the issue I have with that last YC is that the offence was immaterial. SB said that White were denied the opportunity of a QT. I would agree if Nadolo had been at or near the mark when he kicked it away but he wasn't. The opportunity for a QT never existed; the ball was in Nadolo's hands 15 metres away from the mark when the whistle went and no White players made any attempt to chase him for the ball. Even if Nadolo had stopped and put the ball on the ground, White still would not have had the opportunity take it quickly.
    Nadolo probably was a bit unlucky to cop the YC, maybe it should have been Crotty, who started it all. The whole sequence started near the penalty spot when Crotty (?) ran then passed to Nadolo, who then ran and eventually kicked. All this happened after the whistle had gone and the sequence removed all possibility of a quick penalty

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    Default Re: Sharks vs Crusaders - 3 yellows and a red

    Quote Originally Posted by Baylion View Post
    Nadolo probably was a bit unlucky to cop the YC, maybe it should have been Crotty, who started it all. The whole sequence started near the penalty spot when Crotty (?) ran then passed to Nadolo, who then ran and eventually kicked. All this happened after the whistle had gone and the sequence removed all possibility of a quick penalty
    The 2nd was more C&O than the first !

  5. #45

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    Default Re: Sharks vs Crusaders - 3 yellows and a red

    Quote Originally Posted by Ian_Cook View Post
    Phil, the issue I have with that last YC is that the offence was immaterial. SB said that White were denied the opportunity of a QT. I would agree if Nadolo had been at or near the mark when he kicked it away but he wasn't. The opportunity for a QT never existed; the ball was in Nadolo's hands 15 metres away from the mark when the whistle went and no White players made any attempt to chase him for the ball. Even if Nadolo had stopped and put the ball on the ground, White still would not have had the opportunity take it quickly.

    The whistle had gone, and the red player then booted the ball as far as he could.
    He clearly wanted to give his team more time to get back into defensive positions.
    Cynical play in the red zone....cya.

    Follow my Award Winning blog The Rugby Ref


  6. #46

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    Default Re: Sharks vs Crusaders - 3 yellows and a red

    Quote Originally Posted by Baylion View Post
    Nadolo probably was a bit unlucky to cop the YC, maybe it should have been Crotty, who started it all. The whole sequence started near the penalty spot when Crotty (?) ran then passed to Nadolo, who then ran and eventually kicked. All this happened after the whistle had gone and the sequence removed all possibility of a quick penalty
    Nadolo had the ball in his hands when the whistle went - Crotty(?) had already passed. I don't see that Crotty(?) should have stopped playing before he heard the whistle even if he knew the referee was playing advantage to his opponents.

    What Nadolo did was petty. I agree it was by then immaterial, but that is no justification; however it does affect the seriousness of the offence. As a standalone incident, the YC looked harsh.
    He trudg’d along unknowing what he sought,
    And whistled as he went, for want of thought.
    The Referee by John Dryden

  7. #47
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    Default Re: Sharks vs Crusaders - 3 yellows and a red

    Quote Originally Posted by OB.. View Post
    Nadolo had the ball in his hands when the whistle went - Crotty(?) had already passed. I don't see that Crotty(?) should have stopped playing before he heard the whistle even if he knew the referee was playing advantage to his opponents.

    What Nadolo did was petty. I agree it was by then immaterial, but that is no justification; however it does affect the seriousness of the offence. As a standalone incident, the YC looked harsh.
    You're right and I'm embarrassed. Comes from going on what one "remembers" instead of checking the evidence again.
    Last edited by Baylion; 07-04-15 at 17:04.

  8. #48
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    Default Re: Sharks vs Crusaders - 3 yellows and a red

    Quote Originally Posted by Blower View Post
    The fact it took a second card for the same thing says that they do need to be nannied. The message sent was not strong enough the first time. You can call it a captains error in not sending the message to his players but the SB could have forced Read to do something more.

    Fool me once shame on you, fool me twice shame on me. Refs are not responsible for the actions of players but it's their duty to effect correct inputs in order to adjust player behavior on the field of play.
    Any eejit can blow 35 penalties in a match and flash 10 cards. The best in the business are the best because they fundamentally have lower legitimate counts in these areas.
    Nonsense!

    After the first Card (remember the players already KNOW THE LAW [or should do]) The players have had it reinforced to them. The Captain is responsible for his side's discipline NOT the referee. The referee "takes over" if the captain anf the players can't control themselves.

    The ref can't "force" the captain to do anything. He can tell him the likely outcome that non compliance will produce.

    At the level of the game we are discussing the player should not need the ref t onanny them. If they do I guess they should not be there.

    I'll theow this into the pot. Anybody consider eacalating the YC to a red for the second "No arms" tackle?

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    Default Re: Sharks vs Crusaders - 3 yellows and a red

    Quote Originally Posted by Pegleg View Post

    I'll theow this into the pot. Anybody consider eacalating the YC to a red for the second "No arms" tackle?
    (b)
    Repeated infringements by the team. When different players of the same team repeatedly commit the same offence, the referee must decide whether or not this amounts to repeated infringement. If it does, the referee gives a general warning to the team and if they then repeat the offence, the referee cautions and temporarily suspends the guilty player(s).
    If a player of that same team then repeats the offence the referee sends off the guilty player(s).


    Cautions appear to be the conclusion of repeat offendings that werent previously cautioned?????

    So, I'd say that Foul Play that IS Cautioned on each occasion doesn't fit into RC escalation as above, as the first foul play gets cautioned in its own right!

    I then contradict my own thinking somewhat when I say, I'd YC,YC,YC,RC , rather than YC,RC.

    Fortunately its never occurred, no idea why, luck?
    Last edited by Browner; 07-04-15 at 19:04.

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    Default Re: Sharks vs Crusaders - 3 yellows and a red

    from Ian's snapshot you could actually argue the case that it wasn't immaterial. If Nadolo had put the ball down and White ran to collect it, Red would have to react and scramble back in an unorganised line. Most of the Red players are ahead of the mark so would have to retreat 15 metres before being legal.

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